Dual Trade

[ozwinner]

Yeahhhh..
Only took us 3 posts and 4670 man hours to convince you to do it.

Al

[bricks]

Dont wanna rock the boat cross but sound like your getting screwed, Id do the course out of my own pocket because its worth it but tell my boss where to go if he asked me to use my skill.

There is a shortage of skilled trades and apprentices, here in adelaide most are through training organizations, we have to compeate just to make them stay with us. If your annoyed coz you think your getting a bum deal, id say you are, although indentured to your employer it isnt impossible to change jobs as an apprentice, Id line up a new job and tell my boss where to stick it.

[ozwinner]

Sounds like a real prick that you work for bricks.

Al

[bricks]

I work for myself, and i work contract basis for a pretty big company,
When i work for the company (You can go a year without seeing the owner) i suppose im kinda the boss for the apprentices and tradies.

Im finding that its becoming harder and harder to keep apprentices / employees , it just annoys me when other blokes seem to treat their work force like slaves and i cant even fart with out someone pulling the pin.
I dont consider myself, an ar #@ le leader, i try to keep people happy, ( they tend to be more co-operative). But in the company there are normally 5-10 people, including apprentices who leave every month because of a policy I or the 25 or so others in my position cant change.

If your a skilled worker in this country you are gold, it is hard to replace you and you shouldnt have to put up with crap.
Work hard, get money, you should'nt have trouble finding a job (in a big city at least). As Johnny Howard said about workplace reforms, everyone has the right to find a new job if they dont like whats going on.

[ozwinner]

I work for myself, .

Sounds like a real prick that you work for bricks.

Al

Like I said.

Al

[bricks]

While i may believe i work for myself, and i go to work and make my own decisions like a big boy, I think everyone Knows they serve a higher being in this world.

Tha missus

[pawnhead]

To the best of my knowledge, if i wanted to work for myself and do air conditioning un-supervised, then i would need a licence. For now its perfectly fine for me to work under my boss' licence. And the only way i know to get a licence is the course, or wait until ive done a few more years work and apply for a licence based on my experience. However i would probably be forced to attend at least some tafe(if not all the modules) to do part of the course.

It is not the intent of the legislation to lock people out of the industry just because they haven't done the relevant course. All people handling refrigerant are required to hold a licence from 1 July 2005, however if you have worked in the industry prior to applying for a licence, then you will be able to obtain a 12 month Experienced Person's licence. This licence recognises past experience in the industry as a transitional measure. When you reapply for a licence at the end of the 12 months you will need to show that you have the necessary skills, experience or training necessary for you to be able to meet the requirements of the licence (see Table 1). This will be done either through a trade recognition process, a Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) process or a demonstration of current competencies.
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp....html#industry

APPLICATION FOR NATIONAL REFRIGERANT HANDLING LICENCE
Documentary Evidence in support of Application
< snip >
Trade Certificate i.e. Any Certificate having a Trade Outcome, and evidence of Industry Experience*
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=3&gl=au

As I read it, if you've got a sparky's licence and experience in refrigeration, then I'd just apply for the licence.

[cross]

Thanks for taking the time to look that up pawnhead, i have sent an email to arktic enquiring about the options i have for obtaining the licence.

[cross]

Found the full version of the information you posted pawnhead:

http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%2...tions%20V1.pdf

"Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic."

Nice of them to edit and leave out important parts in one version of the paperwork.

[cross]

Here is the email reply i received from arctick:

"If you only require to do splits up to 18KW you can do a course which is Mem20198 Certificate II in Engineering Production (Air Conditioning). If you require to do commercial refrigeration you will be required to complete the apprenticeship course which is MEM 30299 Cert III in Engineering Mechanical (Refrigeration & Air Conditioning). If you take on one of these courses you will need to apply for a trainee licence, which you will need to be supervised for, but once completed you will be issued with a licence and you will not need to be supervised."

Looks like its back to tafe for me.....

[pawnhead]

Looks like its back to tafe for me.....

Ah well. Sorry to get your hopes up there.

You can also quite easily get a limited plumbers license to install water heaters too I believe. Plumbers can get a limited sparkies license to do the same. There's money in that and you can keep the plumbers honest with their charges. They're generally a lot dearer than sparkies and chippies since they've got to keep their yachts sailing.

[cross]

Its a difficult situation, i still have some doubts about weather i will use the licence at any time and if its worthwhile. I know people say it increases job oppertunities etc, but sometimes im not sure if i even want to do airconditioning.. Im happy doing electrical and dont mind that kind of work. And at times i think i should do the course so i dont miss this opportunity. While at other times i feel like just enjoying life and being carefree.. has pawnhead said in earlier posts.

[pawnhead]

Its a difficult situation, i still have some doubts about weather i will use the licence at any time and if its worthwhile. I know people say it increases job oppertunities etc, but sometimes im not sure if i even want to do airconditioning .. Im happy doing electrical and dont mind that kind of work. And at times i think i should do the course so i dont miss this opportunity. While at other times i feel like just enjoying life and being carefree.. has pawnhead said in earlier posts.

Well that's quite a confused post and it's hard to give advice beyond what's already been said by all. The course may not be any benefit to you at all, but it may be very useful. No one has a crystal ball and no one knows where you will be in seven years. It all depends on your conviction.

When you make a decision, as we are all forced to at various stages of our lives, the most important thing is to make it with conviction. You must be sure of yourself even if you’re not, if you know what I mean. If you can’t convince yourself that you’ve made the right decision then you’ll have much less chance of being successful in anything.

The next most important thing is, don’t look back in remorse. If you’ve convinced yourself that you’ve made the right decision, then that’s what it was and you should have no regrets. If you end up broke, and destitute in old age because you’ve partied all your life and tried to do whatever has made you happiest from moment to moment, then you should have no regrets. It’s better than being miserable in your work and piling up wads of dough. You don’t need much to be happy if you’ve got the right outlook.

As others have said, it may be most prudent to do the course then set up your own electrical/airconditioning company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best to do overtime instead so you’ll be financially secure when you set up your own electrical contracting company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best, after you’ve obtained your license, to do a Clerk of Works course, and obtain a full builders license, then set up your own building/electrical company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best to spend your time doing whatever you enjoy most. That’s the best decision because pride and money have nothing to do with it. You’re doing what you want and you’d be the envy of a lot of people who are miserable in their lives. It doesn’t matter at all what anyone else thinks. The most important opinion of all, and the only one that really matters, is your own, and you have no regrets.

You may start the course, then change your mind. You may have an offer to set up a a partnership if you devote all of your time to it. If you decide to quit, then do it with conviction and have no regrets. At the time it was the best decision you could have made.

The worst decision that you may make in the future, is to choose to have regrets about your past. You must live with the consequences and life’s too short to waste wallowing in self pity.

If after pondering the options, you still aren’t convinced with yourself, then I’d suggest a backpack, and seek what you may be looking for. It could be as simple as surfing the net for possibilities, and alternatives.


Whatever you do, keep a smile on your dial.

[cross]

Thanks alot for the post pawnhead, it gives me alot to think about.

Today i spoke with my boss and clearly outlined why i beleive it would be beneficial to the company for him to provide me with appropriate training if im required to do refrigeration and air conditioning work in addition to electrical. He hasnt given a definite answer yet, but it seems he is starting to see that providing me with the training may be a good idea for him.

[pawnhead]

Found the full version of the information you posted pawnhead:

http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%20Qualifications%20V1.pdf

"Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic."

Nice of them to edit and leave out important parts in one version of the paperwork.

Perhaps it's not the end of it just yet. This is the complete section from that pdf: -

Full Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Licence
Licence can be obtained if you have any of the following:
Successful Completion of an Apprenticeship as a Refrigeration Mechanic e.g. Certificate of Completion, Proficiency Certificate, or a
Trade Recognition Certificate: Refrigeration Mechanic.
MEM30205 Certificate III in Engineering Mechanical Trade (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
MEM30298 Certificate III in Engineering (Mechanical - Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
UTE30999 Certificate III in Electrotechnology Refrigeration and Air Conditioning.
Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades
Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic.
http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%2...tions%20V1.pdf

And this is a definition of Trade Recognition that I've found: -

What is Trade Skills Recognition?
Many people with trade skills and experience do not have formal qualifications. There are opportunities for these people to have their skills assessed and formally recognised.
Trade recognition in NSW is conducted in accordance with Part 3 of the Apprenticeship and Traineeship Act 2001. Fees are established by regulation under this Act.
Who can apply?
If a person has experience working in a particular recognised trade but does not have formal qualifications in that trade, he/she can apply to have his/her trade skills assessed and formally recognised by the NSW Vocational Training Tribunal (VTT) and receive trade certification. They may do this if they:
• have worked in the particular trade for at least four years (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed an apprenticeship or other trade training (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed a recognised industry assessment program or
• have acquired an appropriate qualification

http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...radeskills.htm

Here is the email reply i received from arctick:

"If you only require to do splits up to 18KW you can do a course which is Mem20198 Certificate II in Engineering Production (Air Conditioning). If you require to do commercial refrigeration you will be required to complete the apprenticeship course which is MEM 30299 Cert III in Engineering Mechanical (Refrigeration & Air Conditioning). If you take on one of these courses you will need to apply for a trainee licence, which you will need to be supervised for, but once completed you will be issued with a licence and you will not need to be supervised."

Looks like its back to tafe for me.....

Maybe, but perhaps not. Post the email that you sent to them and post the complete response if there's any more to it.

Perhaps you just need a bit more conviction when you approach them. They may be reluctant to show you a shortcut because they want you to pay for their course. The person that responded to you may not be aware of it, or there could be other reasons.

I obtained a carpenter's license without any formal education at all. It was before I sat for my builder's course. Four years experience + references + sitting for an exam, are all that's required nowadays I believe. Why bother learning a whole lot of crap that you're never going to use, I thought, so I taught myself only what I needed to know (roofs, staircases, framing, etc).

The squeaky wheel gets the oil so I'd try to get to the bottom of this if I were you.