Something is bothering me all morning

[Wongo]

I know how these things work. Find a psychiatrist and prove that he is mentally ill and he can walk free.:mad:

The other thing is no matter what, he can always find a lawyer who is willing to defend him.:mad:

[workgoose]

Bring back the death penalty - it would save a lot of hard-earned taxpayer's money keeping scum like that in the pen...

[bennylaird]

Only trouble is there must be a 100% certainty of guilt, and how can it be done without making someone else a killer, ie. the executioner?

Otherwises hang the -arstard................

[Two-Words]

I know how these things work. Find a psychiatrist and prove that he is mentally ill and he can walk free.:mad:

That shouldn't be necessary. Perpetrating a crime like that is proof that you are mentally nuts anyway. A sane person couldn't do it. Same as Bryant, Knight etc. Freakin' nut bags the lot of them.

Therefore, mental illness is no excuse. I see they executed another one in the US yesterday and good on 'em. We should have degrees of murder here like they do over there. 1st degree murder is premeditated, cold blooded etc. That gets the big noose. Then you have 2nd and 3rd degree for people like the guy who killed David Hookes. Not the death penalty but severe in any case.

All we have here is murder and then manslaughter. They plea bargian murder cases down to manslaughter and get lighter sentences. It stinks.

Stuff rehabilitation, just shoot the pricks.:mad:

[workgoose]

Yes of course there would have to be absolute proof that the person is guilty, otherwise you are just committing another murder.

[jmk89]

As a father of two small children, I also abhore the crime and worry about the safety of my kids.

But as a lawyer and having investigated the situation closely over 25 years, I have to say a few things:
1. when we had the death penalty, juries wouldn't convict - put yourself in their place, after you have heard all the evidence and the defence has thrown all kinds of theories that explain the crime, are you prepared to say that you are so convinced that the person is guilty that you will say that they must hang?
2. Remember the errors that have been made, people wrongly convicted based on cooked up evidence, bad forensic science or prejudice or even where there has been an honest mistake - you can release the mistakenly convicted from gaol, but you can't bring them back to life. It pays to put yourself in the position of an innocent, but wrongly prosecuted defendant the system is biased in favour of the defendant because any of us can find ourselves in that position and it is better for some guilty people to go free than for any innocent person to be convicted.
3. There is no evidence that the death penalty leads to less serious crime being committed - the best test case is New Zealand where over a lengthy period the death penalty was applied for murder and then not applied then reapplied. Some years had more murders than others, but over the long run the murder rate remained about the same regardless of the penalty.
4. Rarely is a plea of insanity successful - the legal test of insanity means that not just any mental derangement will get you off entirely, it has to be so serious that the person did not know the wrongful character of what they were doing. And if it is successful, the usual consequence is that the person is detained in an istitution for the insane - no parole and good behaviour here - it is an indefinite sentence.
5. All the statistics show that the actual rate of these crimes (not only on a per capita basis but also in absolute numbers) has fallen consistently since 1900. So why does it seem that there are more of them? Because we now have these crimes from all over the world presented daily through the media. You are actually safer today than ever before from random violence, thanks to all the undervalued elements of our justice system - police, forensic and crime scene investigators, prisons, psychiatrists etc (and even lawyers).
6. One reason that it seems that there are more "failures" in the system is the fact that the failures get reported in the press - the vast majority of even very serious crimes lead to a guilty plea because the evidence is so strong (especially now that there is DNA fingerprinting) and the "tariff" for the crime is well known (with due allowance for a guilty plea). What you hear about is the few (relatively) instances when things don't happen according to the book - someone pleads "not guilty" or the prison system releases someone too soon and they re-offend.

I dislike these crimes as much as the next person. They sicken me to the stomache. But the basic structure of our justice system is sound and we should not over-react or think that our society has got sicker than our parents' and grandparents'. I suppose in the end, my view is that my attitude to the justice system in Australia is like Winston Churchill's view on democracy; "the worst of all possible systems, except for all the others".

[silentC]

I think the arguments against the death penalty are as valid as they ever were. It's natural for us as thinking emotional beings to have this first reaction when we hear of something like this. For some reason, we extend the protectiveness that we feel for our own kids to other children that we have never met. It always seems worse when children are involved, even though it is probably no more tragic than when something similar happens to an adult. It's natural that we howl for blood.

I suppose the thing is that we are now an 'enlightened' society and we rule with our heads and not our hearts. No matter how offensive the crime, the perpetrator is always entitled to a defence and to the same rights the rest of us have. That's the system we have, and as has been said, it's better for ten guilty people to walk free than for an innocent person to be imprisoned.

Yet our hearts are the vestiges of our animal ancestry and no matter how much talking our heads do, in the heat of the moment, we will always react on instinct.

String him up!

[Grunt]

I try not to pay too much attention to stories like this. They just depress me.

However, my wife got home from night shift this morning and said she was reading about this story last night and the name of the perp 'Dante Arthurs' rung a bell. She did a bit more research and discovered that he is the son of a guy I worked with back it Perth. I met him as a kid maybe 14 years ago, actually he was at my house for a party we held once.

It makes this disturbing story more so for me. I feel for the bloke I worked with. It must be devistating to discover you child is a monster and capable of such a terrible act.

[Two-Words]

are you prepared to say that you are so convinced that the person is guilty that you will say that they must hang?

Most definitely - yes.

2. Remember the errors that have been made, people wrongly convicted based on cooked up evidence, bad forensic science or prejudice or even where there has been an honest mistake - you can release the mistakenly convicted from gaol, but you can't bring them back to life. It pays to put yourself in the position of an innocent, but wrongly prosecuted defendant the system is biased in favour of the defendant because any of us can find ourselves in that position and it is better for some guilty people to go free than for any innocent person to be convicted.

We are talking about absolute certainty here. Bryant, Knight etc. There are many cases where there is absolutely no doubt.

3. There is no evidence that the death penalty leads to less serious crime being committed .

I couldn't care less. It certainly won't increase the crime rate. They do the crime, they get the punishment and they won't be around to offend again.

Don't tell me harsh punishment doesn't act as a deterant.

Do they litter in Singapore? No. And why not?

No matter what the polies, lawyers and bleeding hearts say, if there was a referendum on it, capital punishment would be back and with a massive majority in favour. Then again, we're just the majority of the population and we need to be told whats good for us by others. :mad:

[Grunt]

Many of people in the U.S. have been wrongly convicted and executed over the last few decades (25 in the last six years). DNA evidence has exonerated them. Sadly it was discovered it too late.

The justice system is flawed. It makes mistakes.

[silentC]

I couldn't care less. It certainly won't increase the crime rate. They do the crime, they get the punishment and they won't be around to offend again.

This is a good point. Are we punishing first and preventing second? Or the other way around? Is the purpose of sending a person to prison to provide a warning to others? Or is it to punish the person who commited the crime and prevent them from doing it again for the term of their incarceration? Which of the two is more important?

Threatening people with fines or imprisonment doesn't stop people from committing offences. Maybe the threat of corporal or capital punishment would. Maybe not, but it would give the victims some satisfaction. Hand me that cat o' nine tails.

[Iain]

I think the perpetrator is a little unballanced , needs an ounce of lead behind the left ear, and I for one would be happy to assist in his balancing.
My deepest sympathy to the poor girls family and I hope that in time they come to be at peace, though I feel this may take a very long time if it ever happens, some help would possibly be if the animal that did this horrific act was also gone.
Regardless of your views on capital punishment , can anyone tell me why I should have to pay to feed and clothe this thing, and why it should not be just removed from this earth so that there is never a future threat as well.
Call it a knee jerk reaction , give all the excuses, but that crime was pure evil and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

Whilst I agree with most of your content, the first paragraph is flawed, right should be included for sake of correct and certain balance.
I am not taking this lightly just have nothing to add that hasn't already been said, and having my own little demons gnawing at me after a fatal accident (young boy about 10) I may have been able to help avoid if I hadn't left my mobile phone at home.

[bennylaird]

Would love to see the statistics of repeat offenders?

[Iain]

Having spent 20 years in a correctional (?) environment, I can assure you that most customers are regulars.

[Two-Words]

Many of people in the U.S. have been wrongly convicted and executed over the last few decades (25 in the last six years). DNA evidence has exonerated them. Sadly it was discovered it too late.

The justice system is flawed. It makes mistakes.

So based on that, you'd let them off the hook ? So that in 20 years some do-gooder parole board is convinced they are 'rehabilitated' and out they come. Take Mr Baldy for example, he shouldn't be out but he is. You keep missing the point, some are absolutely guilty with out any shadow of doubt. Are you saying that Bryant shouldn't be dangling on the end of some twine, just because a few mistakes may or may not have been made?