Australia Day

[Bushmiller]

this may be a red herring or a nuclear bomb depending which direction this takes.

I am confused.... ( not hard) If we change the date, what will that do?
We will still celebrate this crazy wild land we enjoy to live in,
why are our aboriginal family wanting this stopped changed?
Our ancestors arrived and (in todays society made a ballsup) but will changing the date change that?
They will still remember today as takeover day, but also remember not all local people hated whities, some actually accepted them and tought us many things

Would someone please try and clear this up without turning this thread into a witch hunt.

Admins.... If it heads in that direction please please shut it down, I have enough trouble on other motor forums about...he said, he hates etc etc SICK OF IT ALL

I have been thinking about this thread in some depth: Well, as deep as my brain will go. The original 10% theory about brain usage has been debunked, although I may be the exception that proves the rule. It is probably more to do with the way we use our brain. Much in the same way as it doesn't matter how good are our golf clubs or tennis racquet but more importantly the way we use them.

Tonyz asked us to maintain a little decorum in the thread and mainly we have, particularly bearing in mind how contentious this issue is and how easily it can slide into general prejudice. That is not a plea to steer a different path, but to be respectful in the way we phrase our views. Take the British Houses of parliament. "The Hon. Member for Wapping appears not to have had the benefit of parents." We know what he means and is a little more subtle than Gough Whitlam when he retorted, "I remember." to Sir Winton Turnbull's tirade, "I'm a Country member."

Of course we are not like that here and have no parliamentary privilege behind which to retreat: So we are not going down that track. Enough of the digression, but I hope the contributors to the thread have picked up that much of what is being said is both valid and quite acceptable comment. We should choose our words so as not to cause offence even if we ourselves are in some way offended. This is not an easy task and if I told you I had never been guilty of it, it would be a lie.

To allow this thread to continue we should become gentlemen or ladies (not a recommendation for a transgender procedure).

I have myself attempted to contribute to this last section of the debate and twice I have scratched my words. It is not an easy task. I am still working on it and make no promises to come through with anything at all sensible. In the meantime I look forward to continued debate by the current and maybe new participants with thought provoking ideas.

Regards
Paul

[elanjacobs]

You are taking Rich to task for generalising without qualification but in so doing you are guilty of the same crime.

I'm genuinely confused here... How is asking for evidence to support an accusation the same thing as making an accusation?

[rustynail]

You are quite right Elan, it isn't the same thing. Asking for evidence is one part of the discussion and when that evidence is not forthcoming it creates an opportunity for accusation. If that opportunity is seized upon a stalemate is reached. Maybe better to pose the question differently and see if that has the desired effect. It is understandable that personal involvement makes the issue more sensitive but it can also narrow the perspective and in the interest of finding a solution it is important to retain a broad minded approach. After all, by your own admission, your "Mob" have been up against it for over 2000 years. Maybe time to change the approach. It is interesting to note that throughout this discussion you have not indicated your acceptance of any point drawn to your attention. It makes it difficult for others to see what your take is on the overall state of things. This is not a court of law. None of us are in the dock. It is an opportunity to express our views without fear or favour.
Elan, we are not the enemy. You are among friends.

[Glider]

About 25 years ago, I was at a party in Sydney and made a remark which was intended to be humorous but was mildly racist to aborigines. A short time later an older indigenous bloke, who had obviously overheard, came up to me and said "I love you". He was a Korean war veteran and one of the loveliest men I've ever met. He went on to tell me how, when he visits his mate in Cairns and borrows his Mercedes, the cops pull him over because they think he stole it. He smiled as he told me. A life changing moment.

Shortly afterwards I happened to be in a position where I could instigate a scholarship program to one of the best schools in Sydney. Since that time, we've managed to award 42 six year scholarships each year, a total now exceeding 800 students. I meet them at a reception every year and they number some of the best kids I've ever seen. The program has now spread nation wide and has federal funding.

So where up we up to in this lively discussion? One view, I think, is that people should try to assimilate and not try to change things. I disagree with that one. The republic referendum destroyed my previous faith in the collective wisdom. Sure, lots of minorities would like their views adopted and most fail miserably. But some proposals have real merit and many among us understand the hurt coming from the drip, drip, drip of racism and injustice, present and past. We can all do our bit to stop it.

John Howard refusing to apologise to the stolen generation was block headed, and later proved the adage that pride goes before a fall by losing his own seat in parliament. At least he had the guts to stare down the gun lobby.

mick

p.s. Bit of a rave, I know...

[rustynail]

A mate of mine had exactly the same problem, so he went out and purchased personalized number plates.

[Greg Ward]

If we change the date, it will still be be called 'Australia Day', so that will still generate the same emotions.
On the new 'date' there will still be demonstrations as the concept of the 'Day' will still provide negative connotations to those who wish to view it in a negative way.
Demonstrations are a positive focus for those feeling hard done, by so long may they continue.
For those who don't wish to demonstrate and just have a pleasant family day out, long may that continue as well.
Greg

[rustynail]

Greg, I dont think it is so much what the day is called, I think it is more the significance of the date selected that makes it difficult for some people to accept.

[rrich]

I had vowed to stay silent, but I will try to explain.

There are certain minority groups that desire to enact Sharia Law. If the group desires to practice Sharia Law, so be it. However they can not, but will try, to force Sharia Law on everyone. We already have a group forcing their interpretation of law upon the entire country. It is part of the reason that we have Trump. There are many minority groups that believe that their beliefs and life style are the only "correct" ones, therefore everyone must follow their beliefs and life style.

As a way of trying to explain in a more practical way:
Before, during and for a bit of time after WWII, there was the ARRL. (American Radio Relay League) Better known as 'Ham Radio Operators'. Before decent long distant communication services were available, these radio operators could get a message across the country in a day or two. When the message reached the destination, the Ham Radio Operator would call the recipient and deliver the message. The messages were like, "Alice had the baby, 7 pounds and 9 ounces, date and time". These messages were sent using CW (Continuous Wave) and in Morse Code. There were networks that sprung up every evening after dark when the skip made long distance communications possible. Most of the members of the network were capable of sending 8 or 10 words per minute. Along came the 'Expert' group of Ham operators. They were capable of 15 to 20 words per minute. All well and good except that nobody could understand their communications because they were too fast. A friend explained that they were too fast and completely disrupted the network. If the 'Expert' group would slow down, they could fit into the group.

Other than that I don't know how to explain it.

Oh, one other thing. I have been called a lot to things in my life. The worst I have ever endured was being told that I should be a Pol.

[Tonyz]

my 2 bobs worth since I started this.

I am convinced we wouldnt have this problem without social (?) media, however we have and it wont go away.

Therefore the screamers of anything can scream and yell on social media and get heard, while we the silent majority (usually by a long way) remain silent, thinking if I speak out an opposing view to them, what if they attack me and even worse they my know me. and so social medias voice of race relations, gender bender, religious conviction, etc etc gets all the attention and because TV and radio news always go for negative thats where it gets attention.

Many years ago I heard a federal pollie say the following, If you as citizens just bothered to write me and tell me your thoughts, then I would listen, if enough of you did that i would vote in your favour, because majority speaks.

[aldav]

Tony, you obviously consider yourself as one of the 'silent majority'? I find it laughable that you consider that the 'silent majority' has a consistent view that accords with your own. If you don't get what I'm trying to say you'll never get it, consequently you won't get any further comment out of me.

[forrestmount]

Let’s be fair, yes the silent majority may not be aligned but perhaps they are. We really don’t know and should not assume the majority is not aligned.

As I mentioned I personally have no connection to the current date. This date justifiably upsets a minority of the Australian people for reasons already articulated by other members. I think we should adopt a varying date of the last Monday of January or similar. As a bonus this fixes the confusion on moving the public holiday.

By the way I do consider myself one of the silent majority, I don’t intend to offend anyone as I respect people’s right to an have and express an opinion After all this is one the core values that makes us Australian.

[Tonyz]

By the way I do consider myself one of the silent majority, I don’t intend to offend anyone as I respect people’s right to an have and express an opinion After all this is one the core values that makes us Australian.

well said. I think thats what I was trying to say,

[Lappa]

If it is moved, it won’t matter what day its move it to, it will upset someone, somewhere.

[rustynail]

So what?

[Lappa]

Exactly!