Damn the damn dams or be dammed!

[boban]

I'm somewhat confused by the problem with farmers catching some of the runoff from their farms with their dams. How is this different to water tanks in suburbia which seems to be the 'in' thing at the moment.

We are about to build a 100,000 underground tank to catch all our rainwater. Is this wrong? I've no idea and would like to know what the experts think.

[Grunt]

In cities there is huge coverage of the available land with roof tops and roads. The run off goes directly into drains, then into city creeks and then into the ocean.

If the cities weren't there the a lot of water would be soaked up by the soil before if gets to the creeks. There is too much water going into creeks in the city after a heavy rains. Creeks in the city flood much more often then their country cousins.

[Andy Mac]

I'm with Ozwinner, AlexS and Wongo at least, on this one.
Use less water for a start. Reconsider our use, stop wasting potable water for irrigation and industry, hosing driveways etc. An insignificant percentage of our piped water is actually used in the kitchen, as in drunk. Make people bloody well pay $$ for every litre used, not every litre over some arbitrary figure (no doubt based on some US high consumption pipe dream), or political favours for water extraction rights. Make people appreciate a precious resource, and stop wastage. Brisbane has a problem now with an aged and leaking distribution system, no preventative maintence by the sounds. Recycle sewage by all means, has anyone heard of Lemna? Biofiltration by aquatic plant, on farms.
I've also read that desalination has its own problems, in that the by-product is a highly saline solution that needs to get dumped somewhere, and usually straight out to sea where, due to its density, it sinks to the bottom and kills the local ecosystem. Mmmm, sounds great, and while we're at it are there any forests nearby so can 'chip em?:mad:
Waterless toilets should be made compulsory...I even heard of a place near here, a couple of acres with a highset house, using only rainwater. It was well renovated and extended, with a proper composting toilet, a couple of years old, complete with council approval. Saved the original owners a heap of water, so what do these city folk who bought the place do...pull the whole system out and whack in a good ol' septic system... at least they gave the sellers the system back!
And anyway, do I have something to add to the dam debate...my plan would be an interstate, or even national approach, a no holds barred system (stop pi55ing around with politics and think of the future for a change, with things like population growth considered) of a major system of linked pipelines to join north to south, on both sides of the country, and shuffle dam supplies according to local supply and demand. Not any centralised mega dams, but a linked set of many smaller ones. The way I see it, there is always somewhere in the country copping a bucketting, and the excess needs harvesting, but not robbed. I use the term "needs", because we need it, not because rivers need harvesting! Let the rivers keep flowing, by trying to balance the regional needs.
I think the country could do with a project that big!! Maybe then we stop could stop poking our nose into other peoples/countries problems and concentrate on solving our own first!
And that's my 2c worth...or maybe 10.

[boban]

OK but isn't it just a matter of scale. Surely the farmers dont catch all of the runoff, just a small percentage.

[johnc]

Boban,

In the town water runoff from the roof goes into the street gutters (some goes illegally into sewer systems) then eventually picks up all sorts of contaminants and waste which get dumped into bays, and streams. The pollution in the form of phosphorous (detergent), oil, silt, heavy metals paper plastic and so forth causes more problems than the water solves.

Many farm dams simply intersect a water course trapping water that would otherwise flow into rivers. There is also fertiliser runoff as well as nutrients from animal dung that are not so good. There is an active program around here to prevent farm irrigation water runing off into the rivers compounding blue green algae growth in rivers and lakes. To this end farm reuse dams are installed and irrigation water is used more than once. You do have to be careful in reuse that the water does not become to saline.

The problem of water runoff is a complex one, we need runoff from areas that do not carry high nutrient loads, Typically forests and swamps that filter the water. We also need sufficient flows to maintain the quality of drinking and irrigation water, and maintain fish stocks and the health of our recreation areas and habitat for flora and fauna.

Town tanks are a social good, they reduce the movement of pollutants into our water ways. The rest of the water problem is far more complex and needs a lot more consideration than can be managed by the various red necks and green groups, although their ideas should not be cast aside out of hand as in the end it is everyones cooperation that will be required to reduce our thirst for water.

John.

[Grunt]

I'm not against farmers having dams. I have a small one myself.

The problem is irrigators who take megalitres of water to grow things in places where there not meant to grow. If the cotton farmers grew hemp they'd use about 1/4 the water and improve the soil while they were at it. As a side they'd also get more fibre per acre.

If I drive around where I live, I see many dams. Some of them are bloody lakes. They evaporate more than a metre per year. A complete waste of water. They lose megalitres a year which should go into our waterways.

I have a small dam and I will build enough roof space to meet our personal needs, be able to grow enough food for us and our livestock. All of our sewage will go through a home sewage treatment plant (http://www.biolytix.com/)

[Shedhand]

I think I'm getting back on thread...sort of.

1. I'm ashamed to be a Tasmanian when the wild eyed vegan Bob Brown rears his empty head.
2. Midge, can you get down-stream of the moron and drop a big rock on his canoe as he floats by.
3. Dam the Mary River.
4. Recycle grey water.
5. Stop growing cotton...biggest waste of water anyone ever thought of.
6. I always thought that when a species becomes extinct it was just part of evolution. (Survival of the fittest).
7. Al the lungfish contribute to the environment is that they poo in the water you guys drink. Good riddance.
Signed
Another Red-neck greenie hater. (except any woodies here).

[outback]

As has been pointed out, Cubbie pulls water out only when it is flooding, BUT they have the ability to make the river literally run backwards when they fire up all the pumps. Then they put the water on bloody cotton. :mad:

I guess there is recycling and recycling, lets face it everything has been round a couple of times since the big bang.

I think Scot has it right, we are just a wasteful society. Some of us are just a bigger waste than others.

[silentC]

I'm doing my bit. We installed a 96,000 litre tank this year in addition to the 20,000 litre one we already had. We have an onsite sewerage treatment plant from which the treated effluent will be used to flush toilets and water gardens.

Both tanks are full at the moment and it rained again last night. It's like watching money run away when they overflow. Six weeks ago the people across the road bought a load of water as did we. I think we may put in another tank. I floated the idea of a dam in the gully but the wife is one of those anti-dam types. Chief objections raised were related to mozzies and small children. Dam it all!

[Wongo]

Too right Andy, put the price up and make it hurt. We need to change our attitude towards water. It is an important part of our life so we should cherish every single drop.

It would be a shame to have spent all the effort and energy to recycle water but only to see it go wasted.

When I first arrived in Sydney I was shocked. I mean wow you guys actually use good drink water to flush the toilet and wet your grass.

Well done Silent, water tanks are fantastic. My in-laws have 2 and we might do the same one day.

[CameronPotter]

Jeez, this has got a response hasn't it...

I reckon that just building another dam is a bit short-sighted. What do you do next time?

It is like changing to nuclear, it can be done (and nuclear actually has relatively little waste/danger - but the waste/danger is serious).

The problem is that no resource is infinite. A better approach is along the lines of what a few people here are saying, water conservation.

Let's be sensible with what we have before considering using up resources that will have flow on effects later.

Oh also, Grunt is absolutely right about hemp...

Cam

[silentC]

nuclear actually has relatively little waste/danger - but the waste/danger is serious

Here's an exerpt from a letter that was in the SMH yesterday:

Hydrogen fusion, an energy source that can provide base load electricity generation capacity beyond the foreseeable future, has been all but neglected in the energy debate.

Fusion, the energy source of the sun, is inherently safe, and as the process involves neither uranium nor plutonium, it does not increase the risk of nuclear proliferation. There is an unlimited supply of the heavy hydrogen fuel required and the waste products are safe and easily disposed of. The fusion process was identified as a potential energy source by an Australian scientist, Mark Oliphant, in the 1930s, and since then Australian scientists have contributed significantly to the quest to harness fusion as an energy source. Construction is about to commence on the last step towards taming fusion for power generation - a multibillion-dollar experiment called the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, or ITER, funded by the EU, the US, Japan, Russian, China, South Korea and India - but without Australian involvement. Discussion of Australian participation in ITER must be part of the current energy debate.

[Wongo]

It is the typical way to solve a problem in modern society.

Electricity: We build more nuclear power station and burn more coal. What about use less?

Traffic: We build more roads and dig more tunnels. What about drive less and catch a bus?

Oil: pump more out of the ground or whinge about the petrol prices. What about drive less or drive a small car?

[Grunt]

Exactly Wongo.

If you build more freeways, more people drive. The freeway between LA and San Diego is 6 lanes each way. Most of the day it moves at a crawl.


Power down, consume less and be happy.

[silentC]

I blame it all on science fiction authors. Yup, they're the ones to blame.