Unconscionable Conduct By Telstra

[corbs]

And to para-phrase Ben Franklin- Anyone who would give up their liberty in the name of security deserves neither, and will get neither.

Liberty:
a. Freedom from captivity, imprisonment, slavery or despotic control;
b. the right or power to do as one pleases;
c. a right, privilege, or immunity, enjoyed by prescription or grant
(Oxford Concise Australian Dictionary)

I can't really see how that quote is relevant as liberty is different to privacy.

During Ben Franklins time, how many people hijacked passenger jets and crashed them into buildings where thousands of people were working without a declaration of war?

"He that would live in peace and at ease must not speak all he knows or all he sees" - Ben Franklin

"Wine is constant proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

[Evanism]

The simple fact is that these processes directly save lives.

I read this picturing a uniformed Jack Nicholson growling it out in a courtroom.

You cant handle the truth! Best line, ever.

[Master Splinter]

The quote was actually "Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY." (Historical review of Pennsylvania, 1759, cover). However, it had been used by Franklin before that.

Its context was when the American states were still part of the British empire, and things were getting testy in the colony of Pennsylvania, which had worries such as indians and the French. Franklin was urging that the colonies be able to defend themselves freely against attackers (by raising money to buy guns), rather than accepting the defense that came from the King.

It's interesting to note that both the Boston Tea party and the action at the Delaware Crossing were both terrorist acts. Should the USA be declared a rogue state???

[Bushmiller]

Is this morally right?

From this 'Age' story: Telstra Storing Data on Behalf of US Government.



Telstra has also sent 170 Australian jobs overseas according to this Age story: More Telstra Jobs Headed Offshore.

On another note.

I'm not having a go at anyone on these forums, but if your with Telstra/Bigpond, why haven't you sourced your telecommunications requirements elsewhere?

I have high speed internet, home phone and two mobile phones (his and hers) and my bill with Telstra averaged $200 per month. That was on a CONTRACT. I had a look around and sourced exactly the same needs (home telephone, high speed internet and two mobile phones) with NO CONTRACT. I ended up going with Internode and my bill now averages around $130 per month (same sort of usage as with Telstra). On top of that I have a greater bandwidth allowance (70GB as opposed to 30GB), cheaper mobile rates, cheaper home phone rates and actually get to speak to an Australian when I need to call them. Internode is an Australian company

Please, do your sums and switch from this dreadful company that is Telstra/Bigpond. Switching is painless, all you have to do is call.

Scott

Whilst I agre with most of what you say, I have to concur with DJ on the availability of services in remote locations. In fact I don't really regard us as remote at 200Km West of Brisbane, but it is still next to impossible to divest ourselves of Telstra.

The consequence of this is that I regularly have to endure SWMBO locking swords with Telstra. (I'm thinking of buying her a Samurai sword for her birthday). If she could find an alternative provider she would. I don't normally run a mobile phone, but I am about to switch to Aldi, as they will give a service in our area, It is only an emergency phone and so SWMBO can check up on me when I am away from home . I suspect she has a global tracking programme, but can't confirm this.

One of SWMBO's biggest complaints is she often can't talk to a person with a good command of the English language. This is really rich coming from a communication company! The reason is that the services have been contracted overseas. She often asks them if they are in Australia. They duck and weave on that one , but if the answer is eventually and reluctantly given "No," she puts the phone down or asks to be transferred to somebody in Australia.

Regards
Paul

[Master Splinter]

Thanks to Telstra, you could live within 15 minutes drive of Parliament House and be totally unable to get ADSL because of the pair-gain technology they used throughout Gungahlin. Idiots.

(fastest line speed possible was 26.6kbps.)

[Dragonstaff]

... as liberty is different to privacy.

I see privacy as being a branch of overall liberty...the freedom to keep things to yourself without Big Brother leaning over your shoulder and saying "Oooh, there he is, he's doing that".

[Evanism]

Although a misquote from Alexander Tyler, it's still good. This was purported to be on the cycles of man and perhaps directly relate to the privacy related issues we have today.

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage

It was preceded with the following (again, urban myth) and while not relevant, shows a little light onto why we have our own self inflicted distopian nightmare:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

[smidsy]

Thanks to Telstra, you could live within 15 minutes drive of Parliament House and be totally unable to get ADSL because of the pair-gain technology they used throughout Gungahlin. Idiots.

(fastest line speed possible was 26.6kbps.)

05 to 07 I worked tech support for iinet.
Spoke to a customer who had just buiilt a million dollar home in Mosman Park - pretty much the most expensive land in Perth.
She couldn't get broadband because Helstra had pair gained the whole development.

[crowie]

Interesting thread indeed.
I don't like the idea of the government or someone else opening my mail, postman delivered type; so I do have some trouble with the same being done of my email and then my internet usage monitored.
It was different at work when I was in paid employed; you got a warning saying your email would be monitored.

The other issue for me is, why is the American government going after Edward Snowden so hard?
Whistle blowers should be a protected species.

Back on Telstra, in the past, right from PMG days they seemed to be a law unto themselves and though deregulation has created some change, not enough.
I don't understand how they can still have the whole show under one umbrella, that is infrastructure, wholesale and retail then be one of the most expensive & one of the most difficult to deal with??

Anyways, just my two bobs worth, forgive me if I've said anything out of turn.
Cheers, crowie

[Timless Timber]

Just coz ya paranoid, doesn't mean that THEY aren't out to get you!.

Madness takes it's toll, - Please have exact change handy!

Would all of those who believe in psychokinesis, please raise my right hand!

When you speak to God? - it's called prayer!. When God speaks to you? - It's called schizophrenia!

Telsra?

Buoy cot them with your $! I do!

Mobile Ph I only use prepay, and not Telstra!

Screw Telstra - they are traitors to our nation.

Ziggy Switcowski and the 3 amigos ran Telstra and it surprises you that Telstra supply the See Eye Eh with all Australian communications?

Who the frick do you think all them Yanks were working for? It sure as hell, wasn't us Aussies!

Ohh - and encrypted communications for business purposes? Forget it!
Little known inside tip - the Israeli's invented the software that encrypts, and the see eye eh inserted an op into the Israeli company that developed that software, & they inserted a sub routine into the software unknown to just about everyone including the Israelis. The software is used by just about every company that sells encryption equipment! That sub routine takes the unique decryption key and shrinks it to a microdot - and transmits it as the top of the letter "i", with the encrypted message, in the first or second letter "i", to occur within the message - and then the UK listening post ECHELON - takes all such encrypted messages - uses the micro dot decryption key to decode the message in real time and scans it for key words of interest to the worlds alphabet soup agencies.

The US have their own version of Echelon (As Snowden's make clear to the worlds press) and do just the same thing!

Thus encryption hides nothing, BUT if it helps you sleep better at night believing a lie, then by all means waste your company $ on it!.

I could tell you how I know this but then I'd have to kill us all!

Enough - political discussions usually get me banned from forums.

[doug3030]

Everyone who has changed their telephone or internet service providor from Telstra to one of the other available chioces - with very few exceptions this means that your services are still hosted on the Telstra-owned networks. The other companies buy telstra services wholesale from telstra and in turn retail those services to their customers. If you think you have saved yourself from any agreement Telstra has made to share information - forget it. And if you are on the NBN the network is not owned by telstra but by the NBN CO which is basically government-controlled. That is probably not spared any scrutiny either.

[Scott]

Everyone who has changed their telephone or internet service providor from Telstra to one of the other available chioces - with very few exceptions this means that your services are still hosted on the Telstra-owned networks.

Oh, I completely understand this Doug however my move is more symbolic. If it means I don't see that awful logo again, then so be it. We also need to keep despotic companies like Telstra honest, if we can. The Liberal government, at the time, didn't listen to popular advice in separating Telecom into two distinct entities, wholesale and resale. Now we're paying for it with a monopoly that doesn't listen to the Australian people who so dearly help build this uniquely Australian company.

By moving to Internode (in this instance) I get to speak to an Australian operator when I have a problem and my issues seem to be solved in quarter of the time than Telstra. Go figure. Despite the inferior network reach, my mobile happily resides away from Telstra's fat, grubby, little hands.

The rest of this thread has taken an interesting turn and discussed some interesting points. I've enjoyed reading what's been written. Keep the comments coming.

[Gra]

Ohh - and encrypted communications for business purposes? Forget it!
Little known inside tip - the Israeli's invented the software that encrypts, and the see eye eh inserted an op into the Israeli company that developed that software, & they inserted a sub routine into the software unknown to just about everyone including the Israelis. The software is used by just about every company that sells encryption equipment! That sub routine takes the unique decryption key and shrinks it to a microdot - and transmits it as the top of the letter "i", with the encrypted message, in the first or second letter "i", to occur within the message - and then the UK listening post ECHELON - takes all such encrypted messages - uses the micro dot decryption key to decode the message in real time and scans it for key words of interest to the worlds alphabet soup agencies.

Ok now I am officially confused. how the hell do they do that? You know they dont actually send the 'I' don't you. the 'I' is compiled from a string of 1s and 0s. The computer just makes it look like an 'I' so you can understand it......

it doesnt mean that the commercially available encryption programs are not compromised, just your explanation of how was complete bat @#$% crazy.

[BobL]

Ohh - and encrypted communications for business purposes? Forget it!
Little known inside tip - the Israeli's invented the software that encrypts, and the see eye eh inserted an op into the Israeli company that developed that software, & they inserted a sub routine into the software unknown to just about everyone including the Israelis. The software is used by just about every company that sells encryption equipment! That sub routine takes the unique decryption key and shrinks it to a microdot - and transmits it as the top of the letter "i", with the encrypted message, in the first or second letter "i", to occur within the message - and then the UK listening post ECHELON - takes all such encrypted messages - uses the micro dot decryption key to decode the message in real time and scans it for key words of interest to the worlds alphabet soup agencies.

This sounds like complete bollocks and a confusion between digital and physical information.

From Wikipedia

A microdot is text or an image substantially reduced in size onto a small disc to prevent detection by unintended recipients. Microdots are normally circular around one millimetre in diameter but can be made into different shapes and sizes and made from various materials such as polyester and also metal. The name comes from the fact that the microdots have often been about the size and shape of a typographical dot, such as a period or the title of a lowercase i or j. Microdots are, fundamentally, a steganographic approach to message protection.

Steganography is form of physical security by obscurity - even though there can be there is usually no encryption involved.

In digital information the dot on any "i" has no unique digital identity like it does in the physical representation of the letter. Neither does any part of any letter or number. All digital characters are represented in their entirety in digital form as just a string of "on" and "offs", its the entire pattern of "ons" and "offs" of a message that is encrypted or scrambled and rarely the individual characters.

Information can of course be transmitted as a digital image (with a decryption key inside the digital representation of the dot on a letter "i"). But this is a silly way to do this as information can be very cleverly hidden inside any image without bothering to make sure the image contains a letter "i". Just sending the information as an unknown image transformation is a much easier way to encrypt information than bothering with the "dot" parts of letters, and none of this has anything to do with microdots which are a physical form of information security.

[doug3030]

Oh, I completely understand this Doug however my move is more symbolic. If it means I don't see that awful logo again, then so be it.

Hi Scott, If making the move and switching has given you what you want, then I am pleased for you. I just want to make it clear that my post was not directed at you, but meant as general information for anyone who might have been planning to switch thinking they would avoid any scrutiny.

Doug