Whose chequing yore speling?

[jmk89]

In my experience those who have English as a second language are much more likely to try to spell and to express themselves in accordance with the norms of the language. They may fall short (as I do when I write or speak in French, a language that I learned to University level and use in my business), but they are in general more aware of the rules and how things work in English than native speakers (and again I am aware that this is the case with French - non-native speakers have a better knowledge of the rules that native speakers).

The criticism that I think is being made is not of those who, for any number of good reasons, fall short of perfection in what they write but who try to get it right, which probably includes 90+% of members. Rather the criticism is of those who appear to delight in throwing any old collection of letters, numerals and punctuation onto the screen in no particular order, apparently expecting the readers to unscramble the mess. That is disrespectful of the other members.

All I think those who have been called "spelling nazis" are asking is for those who can do better to try, not because spelling well has a particular virtue, but to make it easier for everyone to understand. That will in fact make the Forums more vibrant (as discussions of spelling do not).

[Woodwould]

Succinct as always.

[jimbur]

I like what J K Galbraith said. The reader should meet the writer half way and vice versa.
Cheers
Jim

[ubeaut]

In an open forum like this it really shouldn't matter 'ow ya gets ya message across. If it's usin' strine, sms abbreviations, slang, proper english, ye goode olde English, dyslixec Engilsh or even US English isn't really important, no matter how frustr8ting it mite b.

The most important thing to get the message across.

Look at this thread to see just what sort of stress and problems sticklers can cause. There has been an ongoing problem with people picking on others spelling and I for one reckon it's time that we all put a stop to it. We have lost a lot of good members over the years because of spelling nazis and it really needs to stop.

I know for a fact there are people out there who won't post or even join for fear of being made to look foolish because they have a problem either spelling or expressing themselves. I have had many emails about just this over the last 10 years and continue to get them.

Picking on people's bad spelling and grammar is rude, poor form and borders on discrimination. It's hard enough for some people to come to a forum and open up to others without being made to look foolish by some one pointing out their shortcomings.

It's interesting Neil brought up "spelling Nazis", yet the only ones to raise their heads were Groggy and !

As for Admin team raising their heads. Their job is to keep the forums running smoothly and if changing the spelling of a key word or two will help keep the search engines on track then that's what they'll do. Other than that they don't interfere with spelling.

By the way I'm not singling anyone out as being a spelling nasti. Nothing could be further from my mind.

Cheers - Neil

[ST John]

in an open forum like this it really shouldn't matter 'ow ya gets ya message across. If it's usin' strine, sms abbreviations, slang, proper english, ye goode olde english, dyslixec engilsh or even us english isn't really important, no matter how frustr8ting it mite b.

The most important thing to get the message across.

Look at this thread to see just what sort of stress and problems sticklers can cause. There has been an ongoing problem with people picking on others spelling and i for one reckon it's time that we all put a stop to it. We have lost a lot of good members over the years because of spelling nazis and it really needs to stop.

I know for a fact there are people out there who won't post or even join for fear of being made to look foolish because they have a problem either spelling or expressing themselves. I have had many emails about just this over the last 10 years and continue to get them.

Picking on people's bad spelling and grammar is rude, poor form and borders on discrimination. It's hard enough for some people to come to a forum and open up to others without being made to look foolish by some one pointing out their shortcomings.


As for admin team raising their heads. Their job is to keep the forums running smoothly and if changing the spelling of a key word or two will help keep the search engines on track then that's what they'll do. Other than that they don't interfere with spelling.

By the way i'm not singling anyone out as being a spelling nasti. Nothing could be further from my mind.

Cheers - neil :u

here here!!!

[Woodwould]

In an open forum like this it really shouldn't matter 'ow ya gets ya message across.

That's what I've been saying. Communication! Communication! Communication! But that often doesn't happen because some people are lazy, slovenly and disrespectful. It has nothing to do with spelling Nazis. Nobody in this thread so far has come across as one. I think you're confusing the issue Neil.

There has been an ongoing problem with people picking on others spelling and I for one reckon it's time that we all put a stop to it.

I have not seen any personal attacks of this nature and I would not condone it. As you say, it's an open forum and this topic will keep recurring as long as tripe is posted. If you close the threads or ban those whose opinions you don't subscribe to, who is the discriminator then?

We have lost a lot of good members over the years because of spelling nazis and it really needs to stop. I know for a fact there are people out there who won't post or even join for fear of being made to look foolish because they have a problem either spelling or expressing themselves.

It's a two-way street then. Similarly, I know of several people who have moved on because of the level of tripe posted by a few that destroy perfectly good threads. In recent days, at least one person has admitted blocking some members because of the wilfully incoherent tripe they post. It's all very well blocking some individuals, but then others respond to the blocked members' posts and the thread becomes even more impossible to decipher.

Picking on people's bad spelling and grammar is rude, poor form and borders on discrimination. It's hard enough for some people to come to a forum and open up to others without being made to look foolish by some one pointing out their shortcomings.

Posting tripe is rude and inconsiderate! What you're saying is akin to siding with smokers when non-smokers complain about their air being polluted. The problem isn't the non-smoker - or average forum member, the problem lies at the feet of the inconsiderate perpetrators. Nobody in this thread (or the previous, now closed thread) is picking on any individual and driving them away, nor are they discriminating against anyone of non English-speaking background or those with afflictions or learning difficulties. As said by jmk89 in post #31 above, the majority of people with (English) language difficulties usually make a considerable effort to converse coherently.

Quote:
"It's interesting Neil brought up "spelling Nazis", yet the only ones to raise their heads were Groggy and !"

As for Admin team raising their heads. Their job is to keep the forums running smoothly and if changing the spelling of a key word or two will help keep the search engines on track then that's what they'll do. Other than that they don't interfere with spelling.

That was a humorous poke at those two; I included a broad-smiling smilie which I see you have culled in your quotation. You wouldn't be trying to paint me in a bad light Neil, would you? The admins do a great job and I'm sure nobody would object to them correcting as much spelling and grammar as they see fit. (Another throwaway comment).

Ban the tripe posters! (Ooops! There's another one.)

[jerryc]

Ladies and Gentlemen, this discussion is bordering on confrontation. Both are allowed in this segment of the forum I know but let us not get heated. People have "pet hates" and they should be seen as just that, not as Earth moving disasters.

I entered the discussion in a spirit of fun, as I'm sure many other did. There is no intent to denigrate those who do not or cannot spell correctly. (Yes, we all know Shakespeare could not manage to spell his own name correctly). If , what should be a lighthearted discussion engenders such outbursts as "I detest spelling nazis", then I, for one, withdraw from the fray.

Jerry

[Grumpy John]

............................................
The most important thing to get the message across.
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Cheers - Neil

Exactly, and that's where spelling and grammar come in to play. Poorly spelt and constructed posts make it difficult to decipher what the poster is trying to convey. I'm sure Neil, apart from the deliberate mistakes that you have planted, that you are very particular about the way your web site and forum is presented. After all it is a reflection on you and your business.

[wheelinround]

WW in using English which version shall we use

Geordie, Yorkie, Liverpudlian, Queens, Welsh, American, Australian or my favourite Cockney rhyming slang.

As for gramma again who's/which version so often I have seen/heard and been corrected in using what I was taught to be correct only to be embarrassed when informed it was incorrect in certain quarters.

I recall coming to Australia and being told by teachers to speak English but I am with a Geordie accent.

[rrobor]

People think they understand other people because they equate them to themselves. This is the first folly of life. No person is the same. I’m an express train. My thoughts are10 words away from my typing, so unless I use some measure of control, my writing tends to ramble. I also think on several planes at the same time. My thoughts recorded, yes can be confusing.
I create furniture, but you will never see a plan as I can not commit that to paper. Ask me to spell “and” backwards and without seeing it on paper I would struggle. You say poor grammar is lazy, you say poor spelling is lazy. You perhaps are the bland majority without issue. Please accept there are those here who do not conform to your rigid rules. Not by choice, but by birth.
And you know what, I am what I am, and blow you and your rigidity. The bland majority are the sheep of society. I say Baa to you.

[funkychicken]

Exactly, and that's where spelling and grammar come in to play. Poorly spelt and constructed posts make it difficult to decipher what the poster is trying to convey

It's espesally anoying when........people write there posts like this......with lots of elipses......and no capitals or puncuatation......its just plain iritating........adnrew

[corbs]

I think its time my attachment

those at the polar ends of this discussion aren't going to meet in the middle... personally if I can understand it, I really couldn't care less how its written

[Woodwould]

You say poor grammar is lazy, you say poor spelling is lazy. You perhaps are the bland majority without issue. Please accept there are those here who do not conform to your rigid rules. Not by choice, but by birth.

I presume by "You" you mean me. I did not say poor grammar and spelling is lazy (though it often is a result of laziness). There are all manner of reasons for an individual's grammar and spelling to fall below the norm (what ever that is), it could be due to ethnicity, learning difficulties, or injury.

What I've been ranting on about are the inherently lazy, ill-mannered people who couldn't be bothered to write or speak properly, who know better and openly declare their disregard for proper speech and grammar, who say everyone else can like it or lump it. Those are the people whose threads, posts and PMs I choose to ignore and who I have nothing but contempt for - like queue jumpers, like those who attend jacket-and-tie functions in jeans and a T-shirt... I could go on ad nauseum. I probably have already!

[rrobor]

My issue with that is, once you draw that bow you leave it open to the nit pickers who pounce on a typo. You would then find this forum would not be as free flowing as it could be.
If you look and see many answers to this are from university graduates, not from the kid who left school at 15 or 16, because that wasn’t his bag;
Having edited for 10 years in another situation, I can tell you there is little here that is really bad.
So please, just take care that you don’t turn the forum into snobsville with people afraid they may err. Rude and ignorant people don’t give a stuff anyway, you won’t stop that.

[wheelinround]

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