COVID19 Tracking App - would you use one?

[riverbuilder]

No. There’s already plenty of ways people who want to can track your movements and associations. I have a colleague who got involved with a lady of Chinese origin, who had contacts in the chinese military and other agencies. Now, when he tried to sever contact with her, she has someone over there tracking EVERYTHING on his phone, and sending it back to her. I received calls on my own private landline number( which he has on his phone) from a person with chinese accent, asking if I had seen him, etc,etc. I’m glad that there’s no mobile phone reception here at my house, it makes me feel a little bit better knowing people who want to, can’t. Of course that all changes when I drive downriver and into reception near the wharf, and civilisation.

[Glider]

I think the poll results may be skewed by the use of the word "tracking" which implies knowing where you are and where you've been. It's not a tracking device. It's a proximity app which is able to reveal everyone with whom you've been in contact who has a mobile with Bluetooth activated when yours is also active. I'm unsure whether the Bluetooth contacts need to have the COVID Safe app downloaded also.

Initially I thought No Way until I learned the details, realised that Bluetooth had to be activated, I had to have the phone with me; and last but not least my mobiles clap out every few years and the new one wouldn't have the app loaded.

We've given up so many freedoms to fight this thing. Google and the rest know so much about us already via all the "free" software we use daily. The government has access to our metadata as well, whatever that is. My CCleaner Professional app deletes >1000 trackers every week.

I decided it would be not only in my personal interest to download it, it's in my community's best interest. I want to know if I've been in contact with someone with the lurgy for my family's sake as well as my own.

Besides that, I see myself as a team player (as long as I'm captain).

mick

[BobL]

Iphone issues with this app are sort of explained here
COVIDSafe's effectiveness on iPhone in question as Government releases coronavirus contact tracing app - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

In summary
"iPhone users may well give the app a go, but when they realise how fast the battery drains, they will quickly uninstall the app as it will inhibit the rest of their productivity on the device,"
Apparently Apple are working on a fix - not sure what this means but its probably going to be in the in the next IOS update - either way it leaves 56% of australian mobile users as less likely users.

I'm not downloading it until its gets sorted out as my battery life is not that good to begin with. BTW that does not necessarily mean I will use it.

[grantoboy]

I think the poll results may be skewed by the use of the word "tracking" which implies knowing where you are and where you've been. It's not a tracking device. It's a proximity app which is able to reveal everyone with whom you've been in contact who has a mobile with Bluetooth activated when yours is also active. I'm unsure whether the Bluetooth contacts need to have the COVID Safe app downloaded also.

Initially I thought No Way until I learned the details, realised that Bluetooth had to be activated, I had to have the phone with me; and last but not least my mobiles clap out every few years and the new one wouldn't have the app loaded.

We've given up so many freedoms to fight this thing. Google and the rest know so much about us already via all the "free" software we use daily. The government has access to our metadata as well, whatever that is. My CCleaner Professional app deletes >1000 trackers every week.

I decided it would be not only in my personal interest to download it, it's in my community's best interest. I want to know if I've been in contact with someone with the lurgy for my family's sake as well as my own.

Besides that, I see myself as a team player (as long as I'm captain).

mick

My understanding is both phones need to have the app enabled and installed.

[Chris Parks]

No. There’s already plenty of ways people who want to can track your movements and associations. I have a colleague who got involved with a lady of Chinese origin, who had contacts in the chinese military and other agencies. Now, when he tried to sever contact with her, she has someone over there tracking EVERYTHING on his phone, and sending it back to her. I received calls on my own private landline number( which he has on his phone) from a person with chinese accent, asking if I had seen him, etc,etc. I’m glad that there’s no mobile phone reception here at my house, it makes me feel a little bit better knowing people who want to, can’t. Of course that all changes when I drive downriver and into reception near the wharf, and civilisation.

Put the phone and a big battery in a parcel and post it to her.

[doug3030]

Please remember to vote - most members are unlikely to read the posts and more likely to look at the results

I will not vote as none of the options come anywhere close to why I would or would not use the app.

Like almost every poll I ever see the choices are very restrictive and aimed to only allow responses that appeal to the poll creator, or possibly inadvertently exclude alternatives that had never occurred to the creator.

Either way responding to a poll is likely to create an expression of an opinion that is not truly indicative of the thoughts of the respondent.

[BobL]

I will not vote as none of the options come anywhere close to why I would or would not use the app.

Like almost every poll I ever see the choices are very restrictive and aimed to only allow responses that appeal to the poll creator, or possibly inadvertently exclude alternatives that had never occurred to the creator.

Either way responding to a poll is likely to create an expression of an opinion that is not truly indicative of the thoughts of the respondent.

Thats what I say to myself every time I go to vote, but at least these forums provide a test box that enable members to express a different point of view.

FWIW I don't particularly care about the result - it was just a vehicle for discussion and I thought making it some sort of a poll might make it a bit more interesting.

And of course unlike a ballot box you can always create your own poll

[markharrison]

Iphone issues with this app are sort of explained here
COVIDSafe's effectiveness on iPhone in question as Government releases coronavirus contact tracing app - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

In summary
"iPhone users may well give the app a go, but when they realise how fast the battery drains, they will quickly uninstall the app as it will inhibit the rest of their productivity on the device,"
Apparently Apple are working on a fix - not sure what this means but its probably going to be in the in the next IOS update - either way it leaves 56% of australian mobile users as less likely users.

I'm not downloading it until its gets sorted out as my battery life is not that good to begin with. BTW that does not necessarily mean I will use it.

I've had this enabled since last night. The lock screen consumes more energy than this app, by no small margin!

[markharrison]

I'm not going to address this to anyone in particular. You know who you are.

If you don't understand something, it does not ipso facto mean it is evil. I have only a tiny understanding of how vaccines work yet I go and have vaccinations. I have never had polio, diphtheria and all the other things I have had vaccinations for, and those diseases were a problem when I was a lad.

In 1982, I didn't have an influenza vaccination (I can't even remember if that was a thing then) but I had influenza. And I was very ill. In hospital with double pneumonia ill. Influenza killed a lot of Australians that year.

Similarly with technology. Most of us are carrying around devices in our pockets that were science fiction not that long ago. You probably don't understand how they work and if I tried to explain it to you, your eyes would glaze over.

At least one person outside of the government has already decompiled (that's a technical term) the Android application from the Google App Store and basically confirmed what has been disclosed by the government. You can read about it in gory technical detail in this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/matthewrdev/stat...iC5gOhzJXCzBqI

If you read that and have questions, I will do my best to answer them for you.

The iPhone app is not as easy to decompile and we will have to wait for the government to provide the source code. I read this morning in the Guardian's live blog that this has been promised within two weeks. My local MP has not yet responded to me (not that I expected him to) so that is second-hand information.

There was someone earlier suggesting that Android was requesting access to GPS. That question is specifically addressed in that Twitter thread. Apparently this is feature of Android and it annoys developers a lot. I can't speak directly to that topic but if requested, I can read more on that and get back to you with a deeper explanation.

Decompilation: This is a process of returning the binary code that a computer understands into its source (human readable) form. This is not always possible due to the way different platforms work.

[Glider]

I think the naysayers might change their view if they're unlucky enough to become infected; to say nothing of the people they might infect.

mick

[doug3030]

I think the naysayers might change their view if they're unlucky enough to become infected; to say nothing of the people they might infect.

I didn't think anyone was saying that if you are using the app you are guaranteed not to get infected. As I understand it if only 40% of people take up the app the chances would be 60% that, if infected, you would be infected by someone without the app. Therefore you would not be notified promptly once your infector got symptoms.

[Glider]

I didn't think anyone was saying that if you are using the app you are guaranteed not to get infected.

Nor did I say that either. The greater the number of people with the app, the faster contacts can be identified, informed and isolated. I value my privacy as well as the next man but it doesn't supersede the health of my loved ones. If I had been in contact with someone who fell ill, I'd want to know as soon as possible that I presented a risk to others and the hell with my 21st century worries about privacy. I sometimes wonder if we're becoming a fearful people like the Americans.

mick

[doug3030]

Nor did I say that either. The greater the number of people with the app, the faster contacts can be identified, informed and isolated. I value my privacy as well as the next man but it doesn't supersede the health of my loved ones. If I had been in contact with someone who fell ill, I'd want to know as soon as possible that I presented a risk to others and the hell with my 21st century worries about privacy. I sometimes wonder if we're becoming a fearful people like the Americans.

Mick, I was not talking about privacy issues. I have location turned on on my phone and once a month I get a nice little google maps diagram of everywhere I went every day of the previous month. It comes in real handy for filling in my travelling expenses claims for DVA. I don't care if they find out who I stopped and talked to for 15 minutes. I don't even care if they know where we talked or what we talked about. I have nothing to hide. The Government knows more about me than I know myself.

What does bother me is that IF I get infected chances are greater than 50-50 that it will be from someone without the app or someone that I was close to for less than 15 minutes and I will not get a notification. Same applies for anyone who I might subsequently infect.

I know that when you go fishing you can't expect to catch all the fish and all that, but the whole system seems pretty hit-and-miss, yet they are talking about being able to ease social distancing restrictions based on an app that will miss more than it will get.

[BobL]

In principle I'm not opposed to the App but I had a bit of a think about how many people I have had contact with in the past 2 weeks, and how many of those have been for more than 15 minutes and it turns out to be 2. My nephew when we did Grandmas eaves job, and one of my Bros who came around for a coffee but he sat >3m away from us on the front veranda.

The last time I was in a large group most of whom I did not know was March 11 (I do keep a sort of a diary/calendar) while doing a dust consult at a large mens shed. I was super nervous at the large number of people round me and I'm not going to do any more of these for some time.

I don't work and we've never been that social so we rarely "went out", pre COVID. We did drop some easter eggs off on my my son's front door mat just before Easter and waved hello through the front window - 2 mins max. My son and his family have agreed to not being in the same room for the foreseeable future.

We do online grocery shopping/purchasing or I drive and SWMBO goes into the shops.
My next specialist checkup is by Skype.

What does bother me is that IF I get infected chances are greater than 50-50 that it will be from someone without the app or someone that I was close to for less than 15 minutes and I will not get a notification. Same applies for anyone who I might subsequently infect.

I agree, the 15 minute issue is a real weakness with the app for me as I've generally avoided crowds/people for most of my life so I'm now quite good at avoiding them and was already keeping contacts ASAP. COVID distancing just gives me an opportunity to do this even more. However, this means the majority of my interactions with people are usually much less than 15 minutes, and some like blood tests are very close contact, so I do wear a mask - for blood tests i wear a P2.

During the last 2 weeks;
I got my flu shot - arrived at surgery and had to stay in car and call surgery. Doc came out and gave me the shot through open car window max 10s close contact.
I've taken one of the dogs to vet several times - same thing. Arrived, called, wait by door for Vet nurse to come out and take dog. I wait in car and we did the consult over the phone. Nurse came out and handed dog back, I wave pay pass over the machine to pay, 10s contact.
Dropped around to the mens shed to pick up a long ladder - two other persons there to give me a hand to put it on roof rack, 3m or more separation at all times, but 2 minutes contact at most. Same at drop off.
Went to bakery at 7:45 am - only guy on front counter around, so in and out real quick - 30s contact at most.
Same with Kebab shop. 15 secs contact to place order - wait outside in car and then 10s to pick up at most.
Cooked chook shop stop is a drive thru.
I have regular Blood tests - arrive, hand over my request and wait outside. Called in when ready, 5 minutes tops - all done.
Saw neighbours and a relative at the park several times - kept 3m away but maybe 2 minute contact each at most.

None of these contacts would be picked up by the app, lucky I have a fair memory - I think I will do the NZ thing and write these down - it sounds like this will be much more effective for me than the app. Given I will be writing these down I might as well write down the 15minute ones as well, especially as I don't always take my phone with me when I go out, and often I have it switched off or the battery has run out. I will keep the list of all my contacts on the mobile and hand it over to them if and when they ask.

Even though WA now has a social gathering max of 10 people, we're not planning to avail ourselves of this in the next few months.

[Glider]

What does bother me is that IF I get infected chances are greater than 50-50 that it will be from someone without the app or someone that I was close to for less than 15 minutes and I will not get a notification. Same applies for anyone who I might subsequently infect.

Fair enough, Doug. It certainly will be hit and miss, but it's better than we've got now where our tax is paying people to ask every person who gets crook to try and remember everyone with whom they came into contact in the last two weeks and then ring all those people to warn them.

Like BobL, the only living being I've come close to in the last fortnight is a heifer which got into the yard and wiped its scouring bum on the door of my ute. But I've still downloaded the app.

Stay safe, dig.

mick