What's the law on pulling apart electrical things in Qld?

[pugwash]

In the UK I rewired my entire kitchen, except for the cooker, using a book I got from the library. I then rang the Electricity board who came and tested it for me. FREE.
All perfectly legal.

[silentC]

Yes it's legal in the UK and the US I think. Some people think it should be here too. I'm in two minds - on the one hand I think you should be allowed to work on your own house as long as it's done properly and inspected. On the other, I have seen some very dodgy things done (by trades too by the way) and having legislation like this protects the future owner from buying a fire trap, or at least gives them a licensed asre to kick if it's not up to scratch.

[Johncs]

T

One bloke says he must rewire his whole house, which even I know can't be true. And who told him so? I would like to think it wasn't some sparky bidding on the job, but I am too cynical for that.

The sparky concerned is my brother, he's doing the work at cost of parts. He has no reason to misinform me. We have three years from when he told us to have it rectified.

Given the choice between accepting the advice of someone I know and who's qualified, and others I don't really know at all, I prefer my brother's advice. Any others to whom it matters, by all means check locally. Your power supply company should be able to advise you where to find the relevant regulations.

[rrobor]

I think you are misunderstanding me. If your brother put in a new installation, he is correct. If your house was wired to the code of law of that time and you are not altering anything, then the situation changes. Few laws ever get backdated, it becomes a nightmare of legislation so laws usually work on the basis of renewing the old and catching you out when you change something. At times it even works by you being unable to sell unless you have done something but backdating law is almost never done.

[Sparhawk]

It's the same with fire alarms. Not mandatory in older homes, but any new home, or if renovation occur, require them fitted.

[silentC]

laws usually work on the basis of renewing the old and catching you out when you change something.

Yes this is true, however if an electrician becomes aware that the wiring at your house is non-complying, he is required to make a report detailing the area of non-compliance. This usually would only happen if you have hired someone to do some work for you for which he is required to submit a tested report.

So for example, if a sparky came to your house to install a new light fitting and he discovered that your light wiring was not earthed, he would be required to either fix it or report it and then you are given a period within which to rectify it.

A sparky cannot walk away from a job and say "it was like that when I got here". It is a condition of his license.

PS That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What we are talking about here is the legality of it though.

[rrobor]

A sparky can not install a light fitting requiring an earth if there is no earth to fit to it. He either refuses to fit it or he supplies an appropriate earth wire, so your point is moot.

[silentC]

Yes he can install it by running a new earth wire, but he is also required to either bring the ENTIRE installation up to standard, or report it. He can't just do his bit and walk away as you seem to suggest. I also believe that even if he does not take the job, he is required to report it, although I don't know how often that happens in practice. Blind eyes are turned to a lot of things I guess.

My point is that, although the legislation is not rolled out retrospectively, it does apply when you make a change to your existing installation and it applies to the entire installation, not just to the bit the sparky is doing for you. Whether the sparky chooses to observe the requirements or not is up to him but there is always the chance that it will come back to bite him if he ignores them.

[petersemple]

My MIL built a granny flat under her house. In the process, my BIL did all the electrical wiring - he laid the cable through the wall, fitted light and power switches and fittings. The one thing he did not do is connect all his wiring in to mains. He paid for a sparky to come out and make the actual connection to the mains. Of course, the sparky needed to inspect and test the whole lot to ensure compliance before he could make that connection, and charged for the time to make all those checks. It still cost less than if the sparky had done all the installation, and my understanding is the entire process was legal, simply because all the work done to potentially live wiring was indeed done by a licenced tradeperson. There at least shows one way that parts purchased at Bunnings could legally be used in the current legislation in QLD

Peter

[rrobor]

Now if you correctkly read my post it stated the 2 options a sparky has one was fit an appropriate earth. There is legislation as to if you modify by X% and I dont know the number, then you must bring the lot up to modern standards. Replacing one baton socket is hardly likely to do that.

[silentC]

In NSW even that is not strictly legal because your BIL would need to have been under direct supervision of the licensed sparky (and he has to have a supervisor's license too I believe, not just a sparky's ticket). Again, I'm sure it happens all the time. However the sparky would have been within his rights to refuse to touch it with a 10 foot pole because he is in effect certifying someone else's work and you would want to trust them before putting your license on the line.

The law doesn't extend just to the 'connection' to the mains. It extends from the meter box to every point, light socket and switch. From my reading of it, you can't even do up the screws on a power point unless you are under the direct supervision of a licensed person. I take 'direct' supervision to mean on site.

[silentC]

There is legislation as to if you modify by X% and I dont know the number, then you must bring the lot up to modern standards.

Have you found it in those links I posted?

I'm pretty sure from speaking to a couple of electricians I know that there is no 'percentage'. You touch the wiring, it belongs to you. You must ensure the installation is safe. Not just your bit. The whole site. That's my understanding, I stand to be corrected.

There is legislation along those lines that allows council to force you to upgrade aspects of your entire residence if you are doing extension or renovation work above a certain value. This relates to things like glazing and insulation. I've not come across anything similar for electrical work.

[rrobor]

It is impossible for a sparky to guarentee that in the average house. Most of the wiring is covered by plaster , insulation and the like. If a sparky had to guarantee the complete house if say he was replacing 1 socket he would have to pull all the plasterboard off to check it. When we all become pedantic it leads to the ridiculous and this is what this argument is. Ask yourself if you have bad wiring in your house, who did it and how would you find out. If 10% of the population could collar the sparky I would be surprised. I ask again, state one case anywhere in Australia where someone has been charged with an offence for changing a wall socket and Ill eat my hat

[Sturdee]

If it is illegal to work on ANY part of ANY fixed electrical installation, how can it be legal to change a light bulb?

That's easy, changing or replacing a light bulb is not working on the electrical fittings.

It's the same as plugging an appliance into a power point.

Peter.

[silentC]

It is impossible for a sparky to guarentee that in the average house. ... etc...

Look, it's really simple. You can either keep debating it or just accept it, it makes no difference to me which.

1. In NSW and probably every other state in Australia it is illegal to touch any part of an existing electrical installation, unless you are either licensed or are under the direct supervision of a licensed person. The legislation makes this clear, if you bother to read it rather than applying your own sense of what should be the case.

2. When an electrician alters an existing installation, he is required to certify that the installation complies. If it does not, he is required to submit a fault report and the home owner will be given a specified period within which to fix it. The energy company can disconnect the supply if you do not comply.

You can argue about specifics and what ifs all day, it wont change either of these facts. If you want to know exactly how an electrician can test an installation for compliance, then you will need to talk to one about it. It's pointless arguing with me about it because I don't enforce the legislation. If you have an issue with it, take it up with your local member of parliament.

Earlier, you only wanted someone to point you to the legislation, which I did. Now it seems that isn't enough. If you want to know details of a case where a home owner has been charged, ring the Department of Fair Trading, or your state equivalent. They are the ones responsible for prosecutions.