Does anybody know (or care) about how to merge on a freeway

[BobL]

On a world wide scale we're not as bad as we think.
This list is a pretty interesting and shows how bad things are elsewhere.
There are all sorts of reasons for the figures but there are lots of countries out there that would like our driving problems instead of theirs, which they often can't do much about. Eg fog, black ice and long dark winters.

I think selfishness is more of a base problem than ignorance.
I'm all for qualified instructors (yes I was once one too) doing the driver training but unfortunately just like most teaching they won't change anyone with a selfish attitude.

[Sturdee]

Let's hear your thoughts on what is the correct way to merge onto a freeway (VICTORIA).

The correct way according to Victorian law is:

Entering a freeway:
When entering a freeway, you are effectively changing lanes (across the dotted white line) and you must give way to vehicles already travelling on the freeway.

There are traffic lights at some freeway entrances to control the flow of vehicles onto the freeway when the traffic is heavy. When operating, the lights will change quickly, so that when the light is green only one vehicle in each lane will be able to enter the freeway.

Thus giving way to traffic that wants to enter the freeway, whilst it may be courteous, is not required by law. Giving way is also the cause of the frequent hold ups in peak traffic to those already on the freeway.

Fairly simply really.


Peter.

[Master Splinter]

Post deleted by author as edits to already deliberately obscured r**e w**ds destroyed my prose.
(I'm not against editing as long as the edited text is not attributed to me. It's like adding spelling or grammatical errors to a post).

[beefy]

Hi Master Splinter,

who could argue with you about the points you mentioned. I completely sympathise with you, and agree there are a lot of bad systems that could have been designed better. One thing that gets me is the damn trees blocking road signs, street names, etc.

Hopefully though, you don't wear your don't care T-shirt all the time. I don't blame anyone for not driving correctly when circumstances don't allow it but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when the situation easily allows it. Like I said when driving conditions are crammed and there are no gaps in the traffic, I open one up to assist merging drivers.

We should all try and drive correctly when we can. Can you imagine how backwards and chaotic it would be if everyone just wore that t-shirt all the time.

[doug3030]

I have driven in every capital city in Australia and in large cities overseas, and the only place where I feel that I am taking my life into my own hands every time I get behind the wheel is Melbourne.

I can almost put up with the idiots. The world is full of them and they know no better, you just have to make allowances for them. One day the powers that be might set a decent license test and weed them out but until then we just have to make allowances for them.

Its the rude and arrogant ones that know better and still do the wrong thing that get me. When I first moved to Melbourne I used to hate how people changed lanes without indicating. Then I got sick of how often when I did indicate that I was changing lanes and the asre in the car I was about to merge in front of suddenly accelerates to stop me from changing lanes. Now I know why they don't indicate when changing lanes.

And why WHY WHY do they back into car parking spaces? I don't mean a parallel reverse park, I mean the ones in the supermarket car parks. They back into a narrow gap towards another vehicle, which they hit far more often than they should, then drive straight out into a wide space when leaving. THey should drive in forwards and back out where there is plenty of room for error if they cant see well out the back. I am sick of waiting while they have the lane blocked off while the go backwards and forwards 10 times until they are in the parking spot. they could drive straight in in one go and back out in one go and not inconvenience anyone. I know it is part of the Victorian driving test to back into a car parking spot but surely this is a test of your ability to manouvre a car in reverse, not a recommendation that you should actually continue to do such a stupid and inconsiderate thing after you have gotten your license.

While they are all in such a hurry to cut you off, take your right of way and generally seem to be in a hurry to go anywhere, what happens when the light goes green? Well they all sit there for ever before moving off. If the all moved forward when the light changed and all slowly spread out as they go forward like they do in civilised places we wouldn't be sitting at the lights for 2 or 3 changes to get through. Put your phones down and move when the light goes green PLEASE!

I have a 6 km drive home from the train station every evening after work. In that short distance almost every day I encounter people not giving right of way, cars pulling out in front of me without looking, pedestrians crossing the road in the face of oncoming traffic, expecting the traffic to stop for them. This is nearly every day and that is all before I get out of the station car park.

Cheers

Doug

[Master Splinter]

I wear my "I don't care" driving tee-sh**t* pretty much all the time.

Essentially, with the increasing automation of of the enforcement process (speed cameras, automatic number plate recognition, trip time cameras and that sort of stuff) I choose put my driving energy into those areas that are heavily enforced by technological means. (because, like, they are heavily enforced by technology cuz they are the critical ones for road safety, right, and not just the ones where the technology to enforce them is comparatively cheap and raises revenue, like).

So if I have a sudden "hang on, is this area a 70 or 80 zone?'" thought, I slow down to 50. The people behind me can just put up with it, as I've never seen them either offer to drive for me, or pay any fines I get when I do what they want. If they were smart, they'd have started their journey five minutes before I started mine.

That's because I don't have an automated system that is constantly scanning the road on my behalf and filing data away for a few months so it is still available if an infringement notice appears.

It's not even like a speed camera reverses operation every 100 or so "OVER SPEED LIMIT" shots and takes one of the next car travelling at or under the speed limit, and the driver of that car gets sent a "Congratulations on your good driving - here's a cheque for $150 to thank you" letter.

Nup, it's an asymmetric process - what I consider procedural unfairness, where the government has the benefit that one speed camera can catch all the people speeding past a point, but to provide evidence to the contrary or mitigating factors, every single car passing that spot would need certified speed recorders and 360 degree video coverage.

I don't want to waste an hour or two of my time going back after I receive an infringement notice to take a photo of a speed limit sign that's faded, vandalised or hidden by tree growth. I want to be able to argue my case on the spot, when it happens.

I don't want to stump up $40 just to get a copy of a photo that may or may not be of my car with someone who may or not be me driving it.

I don't care if I am fairly certain that an area is an 80 zone (because it was an 80 zone last time I travelled the road), because fairly certain still puts me out of pocket to argue, despite how many times I have not broken road rules.

So I drive like an old man with alzheimer's. And see how many f*******ks I give.**

*shirt
**firetrucks

[Chief Tiff]

And why WHY WHY do they back into car parking spaces? I don't mean a parallel reverse park, I mean the ones in the supermarket car parks. They back into a narrow gap towards another vehicle, which they hit far more often than they should, then drive straight out into a wide space when leaving. THey should drive in forwards and back out where there is plenty of room for error if they cant see well out the back. I am sick of waiting while they have the lane blocked off while the go backwards and forwards 10 times until they are in the parking spot. they could drive straight in in one go and back out in one go and not inconvenience anyone. I know it is part of the Victorian driving test to back into a car parking spot but surely this is a test of your ability to manouvre a car in reverse, not a recommendation that you should actually continue to do such a stupid and inconsiderate thing after you have gotten your license.

Doug

Are you for real? When you REVERSE into a car parking space you can see the road ahead of you, the road behind you and the space you are aiming to park into. You have good all round vision, pretty much as good as when you drive forwards INTO a space.

However;

If you forward park then all you can see when trying to get OUT later on is the bit of road directly behind you, over your shoulder. You can't see traffic coming up. If a panel van or a big fourbie has parked on your left then 3/4 of your vehicle has to emerge from from the parking space before you have the slightest idea about what may be trying to travel down the road..and has the absolute right of way. Should the oncoming vehicle hit you; at the very worst it's a 50/50 fault according to insurance companies. Should the oncoming vehicle STOP and you hit it in reverse; guess who's fault it's 100% now?

How many kids are crushed by the family car every year because Mum/Dad drove into the driveway or garage and when they came to reverse out they couldn't see clearly? Yes; the road was clear when they walked up to the car but by the time they've got into the car, fastened their seatbelt, started the engine and put it into reverse enough time has passed for Little Johnny to come from the back yard and wander directly behind the car. Now tell me how many similar accidents occur reversing INTO the same area that they've just that second driven PAST and checked to be clear? I've never come close to hitting a car driving out of a space but I've lost count of the number of times I've been on the horn to stop a car reversing into my path because the driver couldn't see a bloody thing.

Yes there are some drivers who seriously need practice in reversing; there are also a large number of cretins who can't drive forwards either. I consider reversing into a space and driving out the safest way to achieve this, and so do all the issuers of all the driving licenses I've held in all the categories I've been passed out in in all the countries I've driven in. You want to experience real big city driving? Try London, Barcelona or Naples. Sydney and Melbourne rush hour traffic has similar traffic density to most small European cities. On a Sunday. At night. And out of interest; are you actually qualified to drive anything other than a car? I don't have bendy-bus, road train or tank but having held every other category either here or in Europe I feel I'm both qualified and experienced to fully support Vicroad's policy to "do such a stupid and inconsiderate thing" and actively encourage others to do so.

[AlexS]

Chief T is spot on.
Also, in my local car park, the lane between the parking spaces is pretty narrow, as are the parking spaces. To drive in forward means you are entering the parking space at an angle, and are likely to scrape the car next to you. If you reverse in, you enter it parallel.

Assuming, of course, that you are competent at reversing.

[Chesand]

I prefer to back in so that I can see what is in front of me when driving out. If you learn to back on your mirrors it is not that hard to do.

[doug3030]

And out of interest; are you actually qualified to drive anything other than a car?

Well since I was 19 I have held a HR license (it was class C then) and got my car license at 17. I am 54 now so that is 37 years driving experience.

In that time I have been in two accidents as the driver and 100% of the blame was attributed to the other driver in each case.

That's 37 years of driving cars and trucks in all six states and two territories of Australia as well as New Zealand, Malaysia, Bruneii, Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand.

Yes I would say I am qualified.

As to the home driveway situation, I had only mentioned carparks so I am not sure why it was mentioned in he counter-argument, but I still maintain that it would be better to drive straight in and reverse out there too, even if just for the sake of the child running on to the driveway. "Little Johnny" is more likely to bolt into the driveway behind the car if he hears Daddy driving in. When you are leaving you are initially outside of the car and can take precautions to ensure that "little Johnny" is safe before entering the vehicle. How do you do that when you are backing in from the street?

Cheers

Doug

[beefy]

I have driven in every capital city in Australia and in large cities overseas, and the only place where I feel that I am taking my life into my own hands every time I get behind the wheel is Melbourne.

Its the rude and arrogant ones that know better and still do the wrong thing that get me. When I first moved to Melbourne I used to hate how people changed lanes without indicating. Then I got sick of how often when I did indicate that I was changing lanes and the asre in the car I was about to merge in front of suddenly accelerates to stop me from changing lanes. Now I know why they don't indicate when changing lanes.

And why WHY WHY do they back into car parking spaces? I don't mean a parallel reverse park, I mean the ones in the supermarket car parks. They back into a narrow gap towards another vehicle, which they hit far more often than they should, then drive straight out into a wide space when leaving. THey should drive in forwards and back out where there is plenty of room for error if they cant see well out the back. I am sick of waiting while they have the lane blocked off while the go backwards and forwards 10 times until they are in the parking spot. they could drive straight in in one go and back out in one go and not inconvenience anyone. I know it is part of the Victorian driving test to back into a car parking spot but surely this is a test of your ability to manouvre a car in reverse, not a recommendation that you should actually continue to do such a stupid and inconsiderate thing after you have gotten your license.

Hi Doug,

I can certainly relate to the first two paragraphs in the quoted text. I moved down from Sydney quite a few years ago and I never really noticed any of the stuff which seems absolutely rampant in Melbourne. Seemed the minute I started driving in Melbourne I was always getting infuriated at the dangerous things many of the drivers were doing. There seems to be a lot of anger and aggressiveness here.

On the other side of the coin I'm very surprised at your intense dislike of reversing into car parking spaces. I regularly reverse into car parking spaces for the following logical reasons:
1) I can reverse into a car parking space quicker than I can reverse out. When reversing out my veiw is heavilly blocked and generally too many drivers aren't courtious to those backing out of a parking space. It is therefore safer and easier for myself to reverse in and drive out forwards.
2) I have full view everywhere when reversing in, the opposite of reversing out. I have to reverse one time so I may as well choose the easier one.
3) There is a sum total of 2 possible drivers waiting for you: one when you are going in and one when you are going out. The sum total of these two drivers waiting time is less because the much lengthened time of me carefully backing out due to a blocked view is much longer than the time it takes me to back in. The driving forwards out of the space is about the same as what would be the driving forwards into the space so they just cancel each other out.

If a drivers skills are pretty bad then perhaps part of what you say makes some sense. Reversing into a parking space would probably be a lot more difficult and take a lot more time for them than reversing out into the open traffic area. I think I too would get a bit cheesed off with them taking forever to reverse in because their bad skills.

[doug3030]

I think I too would get a bit cheesed off with them taking forever to reverse in because their bad skills.

About a week ago I was caught up behind a driver who decided to back in to a car park at the station. I had to wait while they attempted to back in 14 times (yes I counted them, I wish I had videoed it). I could have posted it on here to prove the point. I probably would have gone viral on youtube. When they finally got the car in they hit the car behind hard enough to move it and were parked so close to the one next to it that the driver of it would have had no hope of getting in through the driver's door if the car that just reversed in did not go first. Then they just left without even looking to see what damage they did to the car behind or even their own car.

I left a note on the car behind advising the registration number of the vehicle that hit them and my contact details as a witness and took some photos. Don't ask me to post them here because I will not for the privacy of the people concerned. I had already missed my train while waiting for the person to park, so I had plenty of time to leave the note and take photos while waiting for the next train.

Ok that was an extreme example but it happens to a lesser extent all the time. I have a back problem and my girlfriend does not drive so I often take her to do the shopping and sit in the car. I have lost count of the number of times people have backed into my car while I have been sitting in it, then either drive straight out again before they get caught or just park, get out and walk away seemingly oblivious to the fact that they have hit another vehicle.

They either hit the bullbar or the tow-bar so they do more damage to themselves than they do to me. I have heavily tinted windows so they often just assume that the vehicle is unoccupied and think they have gotten away with it until I get out of the car and call out to them. Then they start out telling me they didn't hit me and it must have been a gust of wind that moved the car or other even more incredible things.

Not once while I have been sitting in the car has anyone driving in FORWARDS ever hit me.

Circumstances can vary in different circumstances and I have, on very rare occasions, backed into a car park myself. I find it quite easy to do and so obviously do other contributors here, but stand in a shopping centre carpark for 10 minutes and watch and you will see that it is something beyond the skill level of a lot of drivers who still insist on doing it.

Cheers

Doug

[Poppa]

I think that there is a good percentage of licensed drivers who should have their license taken away. Because they are so physically uncoordinated that driving safely is beyond them, or because they consistently ignore the rules of the road. I think that 20-30% of drivers are actually incompetent to the point of being dangerous. I have been in cars driven by such people (young and old - I'm not referring to only aged drivers here), and been in fear of my life. The driving tests are way too easy to pass. Many more people are killed by cars in this country than are killed by firearms - yet it is much more difficult to get licensed to possess firearms than it is to be legally able to drive a car. A car is a deadly weapon. We put them in the hands of people that we would never allow to own a gun and when they kill someone we call it an "accident". In my experience that percentage goes up enormously amongst people under 25 and over 50. I drive about 300kms a week, most of it on motorways. I've driven in the UK extensively, and throughout Europe, and drive in Sydney regularly. And a quarter of the people driving on the road (or more) shouldn't be there.

[BobL]

. . . . .. A car is a deadly weapon. We put them in the hands of people that we would never allow to own a gun and when they kill someone we call it an "accident". In my experience that percentage goes up enormously amongst people under 25 and over 50. .

Your statements about drivers over 50 does not agree with statistics for accidents.
The rate of accidents goes down with age until about 65 years of age and then it starts to come back up again.

What is also very interesting is, experience is much less of a factor than age for men.
A male drivers in their 50's with no more than two years driving experience have the same accident rate as 27 year old males who has been driving for 12 years.
In contrast female drivers in their 50's with no more than two years driving experience have the same accident rate as 18 year old female drivers.

Data taken from Catchpole's article on NSW drivers.
Youth Injury Prevention : Motor Accidents Authority

[artme]

Love your posts BobL!! It's very difficult to argue with scientific data!!