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Results 31 to 45 of 94
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19th September 2007, 01:30 AM #31
to respond to the last quote first, if the kid can't read or write he will be unemployable and will almost certainly resort to armed robbery (stabbing people) to support himself.
more generally, I find the bits I've highlighed in your first post incredulous.
In NSW, the Work Cover legislation extends to schools. This legislation imposes a requirement that the employer (Department of Education) ensure the health and safety of all employees and visitors to a work site (schools are work sites).
What I can't fathom is how the behavious you (and others) mention can be tollerated. If it happened in any other work environment the perpetrator(s) would be permanently excluded, if not locked up.
So why do schools tollerate this unacceptable behaviour?
ian
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19th September 2007, 01:34 AM #32
When I went to school some of the teachers should have been up on assult charges , I had one that always had a monday hangover and found a reason to cane the whole class girls included in fact they suffered more. that was age 9 my wife went via that big religious school system and still carries the scars from being taught and disiplined by untrained sisters.
I am not alone in this and I feel the knee jerk reaction was to make sure our kids never suffered as we did, however the whole thing has gone too far and today its the teachers that are in danger far more than the kids.
The teachers rights as well as there ability to controle a student have been taken away and at the same time the snivel libertarians have removed the ability of the police to deal with the problem or the law to punish offenders. Kids are smarter and understand their rights far better than I did at the same age but that is no excuse for the assults you hear about or can see on the web. they take delight in filming asults on phones then displaying it on the web.
Parents to blame easy to say but with two income families or the way the dole was for years incouraging single parents and the more the better the trad family values have become something of the past in many households and kids are bought up far differntly than I was
Who is to blame , who indeed , I'm dammed if I knowAshore
The trouble with life is there's no background music.
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19th September 2007, 07:59 AM #33
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19th September 2007, 08:20 AM #34
Weve always been very clear with our boys about the boundaries of what is acceptable and not acceptable. From birth. Neither has ever been spanked or physically punished in any way. They appear to be growing up very nicely, the eldest got a "rapidly becoming the whole package" from his teacher. We will see how they go as the hormones kick in.
As to whether it is nature or nurture I truly do not know. My best mate raised a bright girl who is now a street kid by her choice. Another one a son now in Long Bay. Both these guys are straight, sensible and intelligent. I think genetics is a part of the puzzle but not all of it. I had an arab family (mum with veil and three kids) in the shop the other day and the 9yo boy was a pest. I told him to stop ordering his mother around, the look he gave me was murderous, he didnt stop. She couldnt/didnt stop him either!! Pity the female teachers stuck with that little mess of a person.
Now, why should our teachers have to put up with the kind of appalling behaviour. I wouldnt, but Im not that politically correct either. They shouldnt, they see the effects of the other 18hrs per day of the kids life so they can report more accurately. They are smart people and can look after themselves and Im sure that this behaviour is the exception to the rule.
SebastiaanLast edited by Sebastiaan56; 19th September 2007 at 08:22 AM. Reason: add highlight
"We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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19th September 2007, 10:43 AM #35
brava
John Burnsy I am not knocking you as a teacher kids get irratabel think of yourself at times in your life, fights, and kids being kids. There maybe underlying situations behind it all not anything to do with parents at all. Peer presure, sibling's or even just listening to news.
I hated one situation at school yr 6 where both a good mate and I were split up we were both reasonable students and sat with 2 of the classes worst and backward kids to help them along. These two boys went on to be owners of their own business. Yep one a concrete with a large council contract, the other left the area hi parents were already in business good pillars of the community.
The local major of the Salvo's had 3 sons one whom became such a dero druggy he near died 3 times he is now a Economics Busninesman partner in a firm. One of the other sons was a fantastic musician no idea what happend with him lost contact.
I have seen with all the areas I have lived in from the time of arrival in Australia to even today, all the educational tours I have done region, status and income have nothing to do with behavour. Kids like adults have bad days, sleepless nights, stress etc.
TV what kid watches TV these days try PC, Net, Games plus responsibilities at home the preasure gets to us all.
Just to point out even tho Australia's richest man is well supposedly well educated he has dyslexia as did his father and grandfather, he is into gambling and owns many casino's. His opposite is from a broken family a media barron both of who are in court for legal reasons BREAKING the law. A Judge tries to con his way out of of all things a speading fine this is a well educated man member of the law society.
Some whom have gone through tough times find what is regarded by many as the right path and change then there are those like the execs of HIH who are still in jail all private school boys all well educated all from good families.
Burnsye I believe your the type who is also a good teacher don't let this destroy your ideals please I have seen too many teachers have this done.
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19th September 2007, 11:30 AM #36
I sort of had a vague feeling this type of classroom behaviour existed, but limited to high schools, not primary level. Head in the sand I suppose, esp. with all this ADHD stuff. I feel for you Burnsy, must be taking the shine off the job you hoped to achieve.
I haven't heard of anything like this where my 2 girls are, but its in a pretty good area and seems well resourced.
As for kids knowing what is bad behaviour, surely they must...I know I did when I was a primary school kid! Throwing stones at street lights was wrong. Full stop. Only tried that once, but like a couple of posters here I copped a good flooging with a belt on bare bum whenever I transgressed the boundaries at home! Copped the 1yard ruler regularly in school, and various canes on bum and palm in high school (hand in state school, bum in private...is there something in that!?) It did seem sadistic at the time, but was never an outright beating till you bleed, and didn't leave a scar, apart from mental one that still says don't push your luck! I can see that the unfettered use of corporal punishment by undisciplined teachers could escalate into abuse, and no doubt has prompted it to be banned...but at what cost?
For the teachers out there on the coal face, does much credence get put on diet as a contributing factor in bad behaviour, particularly in ADHD?
Regards,Andy Mac
Change is inevitable, growth is optional.
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19th September 2007, 01:08 PM #37
l work in two diffrent high schools working with the kids that just can't fit in and have come across some harded teenagers ,just yesterday we were haveing a chat about school and life and stuff when the nick name the kids have in the comunity (stabbers)came out ,bloody hell what is this all about then,they tell me they all harry knifes and screwdrivers then it went on to the war they are haveing with onther school ,they weren't jocking beatings were comen between them .
Now were do we start to rebiuld the system ,a lot of kids do not respond to a standed education system they feel locked up
yelling ,hitting ,suspending sometime do more harm than good ,some kids have a non loveing lifestyle that makes you feel sad
some kids just need a roll modle a mentour if you like .Primary schools can fill this gap but saddly the boys are the ones that need help at the moment but the primary department is top heavy with females and in high schools they only get to see each student for such a short time
say 30 kids for 50min x5 how long does that give the teacher to find out where the kid is commimg from
to end this on a happy note the ten young people we have in the program l have got though to two (fingers crossed)now they care what somebody thinks of them, now this didn't happen with a little sit down and talk and they saw the light it has taken near 100 hrs of working together and talking with them not at them
number one thing all people should learn is right from wrong ,a lot have no idea
SS please don't use spastic in that way l also work with people with disabilty and its a bit like the nigger word to them.
smile and the world will smile with you
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19th September 2007, 01:20 PM #38
Unconditional love is all any kid wants. End of story.
There was a young boy called Wyatt
Who was awfully quiet
And then one day
He faded away
Because he overused White
Floorsanding in Canberra and Albury.....
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19th September 2007, 01:21 PM #39
Ian,
You been to a hospital recently, Nurses are regularly assaulted and charges are rearly press because "They are sick". The local hospital employs ARMED security guards in the A&E area, and it isn't just the patients
A real life example, at the hospital my wife works at a Dr got mad because he couldnt find the paper that was supplied by the hospital in the tea room, so he ripped a phone out of the wall and threw it across the room. The hospitals response.
Send all the nursing staff on anger management courses, not the doctors the nurses
PS My wife refused to go until the Dr's were also sent, she still hasn't goneI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
My Other Toys
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19th September 2007, 01:46 PM #40
Well, I think it's a combination of lots of things, including a clear decline in standards of teaching (in my opinion). Some of the spelling and grammar mistakes I see from teacher communications is a bit of a concern (including in some posts here). I'm not having a go at the individuals, but I just expect that these things would be much better than they seem to be. But then things like spelling, grammar and times-tables just don't seem to be as important these days as they were made to seem when I was a kid.
My 8yo daughter last night had some homework to do regarding time. She had no idea that an hour has 60 minutes, or how many minutes in a quarter of an hour. The questions were along the lines of "what time will it be 1 hour after 7:15". She couldn't do it. I guess I just expected that these would be basic things taught in class. I asked her if the teacher ever checked her homework - no he doesn't.
Discipline is a word that carries connotations of authority and punishment. But there is a lot more to it. Discipline is also about paying attention in class, working hard to understand, stretching your limits. My daughter needs to be pushed, the teachers just aren't doing it. She will cruise along because she's in the middle of the class but she could be a lot better with a bit of discipline. Her personality is to be easily distracted - a bit of a dreamy kid like I was. I remember getting a clip under the ear on more than one occasion from a teacher who thought I wasn't paying attention.
For our part as parents, we are a bit slack with them, I know. It's too easy to just let them watch TV or play video games. I make them go outside and play pirates or soldiers or whatever they want. They have a ball once they get out there but making them move off the couch can be a real effort.
If I found out one of our kids was abusive or violent towards anyone at school, particularly a person in authority, it would have very grave consequences for them - they'd be deprived of their freedom or have favourite toys confiscated. The problem is that so many parents apparently don't give a stuff what their kids do.
I think it's a combination of lifestyle, exposure to images in the media, lack of discipline from parents and teachers, the acceptance of mediocre performance in school, and a shift of focus on 'what's important' in the education system. There may even be physiological affects of diet and environment that are turning kids into angry, short tempered loonies. I don't know.
Wish someone had the answer."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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19th September 2007, 02:10 PM #41
I feel there is no easy answer.
I was mistreated at school and at home by my old man.
I got in trouble, I got out of trouble. but I was smart - I worked out why I got caught and worked around it. I got caned, whipped, flogged, teased, bastardised. by everyone (except mum - bless her!) the lot.
I dont feel there are any easy answers - each kid is different, and have to be treated as such.
whos fault was it ? EVERYONE involved. Humans are meat eaters, meat eaters are smart, aggressive, domineering and social animals. It's in our blood...
I think you just gotta take responsibility for your own actions and your own kids. I at least have a good role model for my kid - I know what went wrong for me and I just have to follow the opposite path. he might turn into a bad person, but I hope he wont. I just hope im up to doing the right thing and showing him the right way.
A few things I WILL try to teach him;
If someone hits you hit him back, but dont hit first.
Think of the consequences of your actions.
Treat people the way you want to be treated.
Dont try to make others be like you. Dont let them make you be like them.
Stay away from drugs and god botherers.
KNow when to walk away.
Be true to yourself.
Love your mum.
what a depressing subject!!!!!!!Zed
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19th September 2007, 02:51 PM #42
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19th September 2007, 02:59 PM #43Wish someone had the answer."We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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19th September 2007, 03:11 PM #44
youth is wasted on the young.
Zed
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19th September 2007, 03:24 PM #45
This may be off-track a little, and I apologise in advance, but I'm sure that teachers also need to take a few lessons from history. I refer specifically to the huge numbers of people in our society who were misjudged by teachers and were "written off" as "average" or "not likely to succeed at a high leverl" and so on.
I listen daily to an ABC radio program by Richard Fidler, called "Conversation Hour" (11 am). It absolutely amazes me the number of highly successful people he talks with were rejected in such a way by judgemental teachers. Surgeons, Billionaires, writers, actors, lawyers, (yes, and even programmers) were all told at school that they were "average".
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