The carbon tax is wonderful

[Dropcat]

I agree we live an unsustainable lifestyle and I agree it would be good if we could reduce pollution and consumption of resources.

Isn't that what the carbon tax is supposed to do?

Weird how we survived a 10% GST but the carbon tax will kill us all. How about we have the carbon tax and scrap GST? Everyone happy then?

[Ashore]

Isn't that what the carbon tax is supposed to do?

Weird how we survived a 10% GST but the carbon tax will kill us all. How about we have the carbon tax and scrap GST? Everyone happy then?

Just a couple of questions Dropcat , were any taxes removed when the GST came in
Is the money collected by the GST spent in Australia,
And didn't Howard go to an election with the intention of introducing the GST anounced before that election

[Dropcat]

Just a couple of questions Dropcat , were any taxes removed when the GST came in
Is the money collected by the GST spent in Australia,
And didn't Howard go to an election with the intention of introducing the GST anounced before that election

Sure, sales tax (most) vanished. Prices still went up though...

Not sure that the point of the other two bits is. GST stays in Aust as does the carbon tax, (but GST isn't applied to exports but CT is), and who cares who introduced GST?

[m2c1Iw]

GST stays in Aust as does the carbon tax, (but GST isn't applied to exports but CT is), and who cares who introduced GST?

Um not all the carbon tax will not stay in Australia it is proposed to purchase offsets overseas.
I'd perhaps suggest do some research into the subject.
The point was Howard went to an election to allow the public to decide.

[Dropcat]

Um not all the carbon tax will not stay in Australia it is proposed to purchase offsets overseas.
I'd perhaps suggest do some research into the subject.
The point was Howard went to an election to allow the public to decide.

Fair enough on the offsets, but the point was cost of exported goods.

And I don't recall a referendum being held on whether to introduce a GST. I must have been asleep that day.

No-one voted for a GST, they votes for a party that had introduction of a GST as one of their policies (which also included keeping those brown people where they belong).

[m2c1Iw]

OK so how is increasing the cost of exports a good thing.

No you were not asleep.

Yes that's correct the party that went to an election with the GST as a policy won it. What were Julia's words again "there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" therein lies the problem Bob Brown actually leads the government.

And no I won't enter a race debate.

[Dropcat]

OK so how is increasing the cost of exports a good thing.
Yes that's correct the party that went to an election with the GST as a policy won it. What were Julia's words again "there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" therein lies the problem Bob Brown actually leads the government.
And no I won't enter a race debate.

Yeah, prices going up is a bad thing. Exports prices have gone up recently anyway, let's regulate the dollar again.

You can't single out GST as a vote winner, after all who in their right mind would vote for a tax? The election was won for other reasons.

And never mind about politicians changing their minds, that's what they do. Dunno why people are so surprised. As you pointed out the Howard wasn't going to have a GST either, just in his case an election came before its introduction date. (Still it did take him a while to change his mind).

I'm more bemused than anything by this whole 'debate', why anyone actually gives a rats left testicle is beyond me.

Say the carbon tax increases your power bill. Ignoring tax cuts & other bribes, how much would be too much before you march on Parliament and burn it to the ground? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%?

People seem not to have noticed that power bills have increased by over 100% (ie double!) in the past few years. What's the current increase, 20%?

Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets? Why no passionate 'debate' about the increases?

Weird.

Think I'll go play with lathe.

[m2c1Iw]

Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets? Why no passionate 'debate' about the increases?

No rioting but there is a fair bit of heated debate/protest especially from normally quiet middle aust (OK perhaps more the blue rinse set)

Think I'll go play with lathe.

Yep this subject gets boring quickly might as well wait till the next election, now that will be interesting to see how the libs handle the CT.

[Dropcat]

Yep this subject gets boring quickly might as well wait till the next election, now that will be interesting to see how the libs handle the CT.

Probably double the rate & build more coal powered stations.

It's amusing to see the arguments & positions follow exactly the same path that the 'hole in the ozone layer' went along.

Australia need less 'debate' and more 'pulling finger out of rear ends'.

We could have nuclear power here in 5 years, that's how long it takes to build a plant. They come in kit form these days, hopefully with a manual. It's not like we're short of the 'glow in the dark' stuff.

We gave solar cell production to the Chinese, nice going there.

How about funding geothermal?

Or research in commercialising aerogel, with that as insulation you wouldn't have much of a power bill.

[A Duke]

"Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets?"

Haven't you noticed all the convoys of no confidence heading for this little rural NSW town at the moment? Some twit is sure to do something stupid and you could have your riot. Anyway they have the powers that be so worried that we have been told to keep of the roads during peak times tomorrow.

Regards

[Rattrap]

On the issue of us voting on the CT i'm completely against that idea for a couple of reasons. First off ole uncle Kev Rudd actually won his election with an ETS as a key platform then got shafted by the libs when Abbott knifed Turnbull. So in effect we have already had this vote but without all the full on negative attack that Abbott is ohh so good at.
Secondly, i feel strongly that we need this carbon tax weather we want it or not. We all know what the outcome of a vote would be today, Abbott is just so good at spinning the negative ( thats about all he is good at IMO) & its all too easy to scare the public away from change especially this sort of huge change. Add to the mix the pretty poor job that Aunty Julia has done & the outcome is almost certainly a forgone conclusion. (while she has made some real messes shes also faced some pretty huge challenges & handled them reasonable well) There are just too many issues involved in the whole subject with too many lies being told at every turn for the average person to cut thru the crap & fully grasp the true enormous benefit to be had by moving to a clean energy based economy.
No, we NEED this carbon tax, we NEED to move away from fossil fuels & over to a cleaner, renewable from of energy. The fact is scientists have been warning us of the perils of pollution since back in the 70's. If a little more attention had been paid back then with less fear mongering the whole change over to renewables would probably be long over at a much reduced cost & much less social upheaval & with a whole slew new technologies to boot! Changing over from a fossil fuel based economy over to renewable based is going to hurt, there's no getting away from that fact. Some people are going to loose their jobs that's inevitable however there will also be a whole slew of new jobs created by the emerging technologies.
Think back to the birth of the automobile, the entire transport industry (horse & bullock) was effectively destroyed by the invention of the motor car. How many people lost their jobs, their income, their very livelyhood & at a time when there was no govt assistance, no unemployment payments, it was a simple case of adapt or die.
Unfortunately we are now in a difficult position, we need the change over away from fossil fuels to happen soon however we are all now totally addicted to fossil fuels, our entire society is completely built in it. Rapid change means a way too violent disruption to our delicately balanced way of life. So we start small by hitting the biggest polluters first then move on down the line in the hope that once we get the ball rolling the lesser polluters will fall in line before the change is forced upon them. That way the huge upheaval is lessened in its intensity. (hopefully)
This change is going to hurt, i'm not at all looking forward to the pain to come, my wife & i are just simple pensioners with no super or other assets to shield us, but i am also excited & energized by the potential that is awaiting us all. It'll be as big, if not bigger than the birth of the motor car & the industrial revolution.
I am very much a 'futurist' & i am truly excited by the potential that is just round the corner. If we all could only get on board this potential would be so much closer. However the list of challenges stacking up against all humanity it piling up at a formidable rate, the big question in my mind is who's going to win the race?

[woodbe]

What amazes me about the CT is nothing to do with the tax at all.

We (collectively) elected a minority government and put them in a position where they would be subject to a lot of horse trading to form stable government.

Part of that horse trading resulted in the CT.

Of course, we'll never know, but we probably wouldn't have a CT now if Gillard had won a majority in her own right. Yes, she said she wouldn't have a CT if we elected her, but remember - we didn't do that.

Now, we want to pull a noose on them because we put them in the position of having to horse trade.

I think we need to grow up.

woodbe.

[BobR]

Given that a leading authority from MIT has said that even if all countries on the planet were to cease producing carbon polution today, it may be up to a 1000 years before we see any measurable reduction in the atmosphere, what is the rush. Not saying do nothing, but we have time to think it through rather than just rush to satisfy the Greens.

[Rattrap]

it may be up to a 1000 years before we see any measurable reduction in the atmosphere, what is the rush. Not saying do nothing, but we have time to think it through rather than just rush to satisfy the Greens.

Nobody is talking about reducing the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere, the aim is to curb the rampent runaway climb in Co2 gases. There is a natural tendency for an increase in gases, its part of the cycle of the planetary atmosphere. Humans are accelerating that rate at an unprecedented rate. It is this increased rate that is the threat to all ecosystems including our own human ecosystem, its too fast for most ecosystems to adapt.

[Dropcat]

"Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets?"
Haven't you noticed all the convoys of no confidence heading for this little rural NSW town at the moment?

That's more-or-less my point, power bills more than doubled for vague-sounding reasons and not a peep. But a new tax? Get the pitchfork Ma, we're heading to town.

I'd have cheerfully supported a riot about paying people 60c/kWh in solar rebates, but yeah, not a peep about that either.

It's like the so-called campaign against the pokies card, "un-Australian" and all that. Gee, we're limiting your gambling to losing $120 an hour and you want more? (You only need the card to exceed the $120/h limit, if clubs program their machines to that then they don't need to participate in the whole card thing.) Disclaimer - I dislike pokies because they've almost killed live music.

I was actually surprised how much support that has, I suspect the CT has more support than people think.