Installing skirting boards to a brick wall

[ErrolFlynn]

Yeah, I can see that. Though, I'm happy to have gone through the experience. And with a few drinks in me, I can laugh about it.

[r3nov8or]

Re your holes for the spaghetti, drilling into masonry almost always results in a hole slightly larger that you intended. So probably accounts for you needing a larger screw than specified. As you did while sawing, always err on the side that allows you to take a little more away...

[ErrolFlynn]

The 5.5 mm drill bit that was recommended seemed appropriate.

Drilling into cement can sometimes cause bits of mortar to fall away which tends to result in a larger hole than intended. I've usually found that drilling into brick results in a very neat hole. Because of that I prefer to drill into brick rather than mortar on a brick wall.

Whenever I've used rawlplugs I've used the drill size noted by the manufacturer. That generally means the plug has to be hammered into place.

With the spaghetti, using a hammer is not so easily possible. Given that the product comes on a continuous roll, so to speak, the hole size would have to be such that an easy push fit (ie. slightly loose) is required. Particularly as one has to push it through the board and then into the masonry. There's also the natural curve of the product that kind of requires a loose fit.

The hole size wasn't too loose. When I removed the board, on a few occasions I had to use pliers to remove the plugs. Though, that could have been the result of brick dust locking it in position. Then when refitting the board using new spaghetti I had to use a sharp knife to taper the leading edge of the spaghetti to ensure I got it home.

[r3nov8or]

Yeah, I guess your one day matches Ramset's combined 100 years of experience with their product

I'm just suggesting there are variables

[ErrolFlynn]

one day

That's so funny. You should consider going into comedy.

I've actually drilled a few holes in my time. I really know how it's done. Way more than a day's experience doing that. So, you slinging off a smart-alec remark without cause is not so clever. My comment on this product was to provide advice to newcomers.

The product was made in China. Whoever made it would unlikely have been dealing with Ramset for a hundred years. China isn't an English-speaking country. They struggle with English. It's pretty impressive that they do so well with the language but they get things wrong. You must have seen the jokes people are always putting on the web about their misused words and poor grammar. It's a typo.

My point was and remains: don't always trust what you read. The screw size specs on the packaging is wrong. Not so sure about the nail size, but that may be wrong too.

[r3nov8or]

So you don't think Ramset has any interest in its good name here, never did any R&D on the product, and has left it up to everyone to get frustrated and to just work out on their own? Makes sense

[ErrolFlynn]

I think Ramset has an excellent reputation. But whoever did the printing on their packaging (and that would be someone in China) made a mistake.

[Chief Tiff]

What screws did you use? If you’re using deep thread timber screws from Bunnings then the central wire is too skinny to expand the plug walls into the hole and you have to up at least one size.

[ErrolFlynn]

I suspect almost everyone might have lost interest in this, but since you ask: The recommended screw size was stated as 6 gauge. I went to Mitre 10, actually, and bought Zenith Timber Screws 6G x 40mm. They held nothing. I then bought the same in 7G x 40mm, and they were perfect.

What you say sounds reasonable. Though, I would have hoped the size (ie. 6G, 7G, 10G etc) would be fairly universal irrespective of manufacturer. Just noticed: the screws were made in China as well as the spaghetti.

[419]

. When I removed the board, on a few occasions I had to use pliers to remove the plugs. Though, that could have been the result of brick dust locking it in position.

Before the invention of handly little battery operated blowers, I spent what is now pretty much wasted money on Ramset and other mini bottle brushes and a Ramset pump blower which does the same job as a much cheaper throwaway bike pump with a football needle on it. Naturally, I worked that out some time after buying the Ramset pump when blowing up one of the kids' balls or something.

But they weren't wasted money at the time and the blower isn't now when inserting dyna-bolts as fractional differences caused by remaining dust can be enough to trap the expanding sleeve when trying to remove it after a test fit and wasting time getting it out. Or can stop the bolt bottoming.

[419]

What screws did you use? If you’re using deep thread timber screws from Bunnings then the central wire is too skinny to expand the plug walls into the hole and you have to up at least one size.

And conversely with wall plugs into mortar, I drill the hole one bit size smaller than recommended to get a good purchase on the flutes. The recommended drill bit size can result in the plug spinning because you don't know how soft the mortar is.

Also, depending upon how things are going, sometimes it's much better to take a bit of extra time installing the screw into the plug by hand as power drivers can apply too much torque and spin the plug.

I always install Wall Mates into plasterboard by hand for the same reason, and the same with the screws going into them despite them generally having stupidly fine threads. Most of the time I could get away with a power driver on the lowest torque setting and low speed, but occasionally it strips the plasterboad. Experience taught me that this invariably will be for a fixture that isn't big enough to cover a new hole.

[419]

Whenever I've used rawlplugs I've used the drill size noted by the manufacturer.

That's usually the starting point unless experience tells you something different.

One of the things experience tells me is that impact drills tend to bounce around on a narrow rotating axis for a long time to make a hole so that you can end up with a less accurate hole with a coned entry than a rotary hammer. Something else experience tells me is that a cheap rotary hammer like an Ozito is much better than an impact drill in concrete but it can be too aggressive in mortar and brick because it has less fine control than a better quality one.

So, the accuracy of the hole and the fit of the plug isn't guaranteed just by faithfully following the plug manufacturer's instructions.

[ErrolFlynn]

When fitting rawlplugs (eg. to hang a painting) at a location where I can get close to the hole I’ve blown into it. (I used to play the bagpipes, so I have a good set of lungs.) And where the hole size is crucial I’ve started with a tiny drill size and built it up in dia using progressively larger drill bits. I find that bricks are a delight to work with compared with mortar.

I take your point on drill size and making holes in mortar. I generally try to avoid mortar when possible. Mortar also has the problem that there can be air pockets left by the brickie when laying the bricks. Holes in bricks can be a problem too, but generally not toward the edge.

Love your idea of a bike pump. I must try that myself.

With the skirtings, I used a vacuum cleaner after drilling each hole. It was pointless. I know this because when I removed the skirtings, as noted above, I spotted a neat little pile of brick dust on the ground below each hole. I needn’t have bothered using the vacuum. Though, your idea of the bike pump gives me an idea. An attachment to the vacuum cleaner (eg. a funnel and plastic tubing) that is small enough to be inserted into the hole might work well.

[419]

With the skirtings, I used a vacuum cleaner after drilling each hole. It was pointless. I know this because when I removed the skirtings, as noted above, I spotted a neat little pile of brick dust on the ground below each hole. I needn’t have bothered using the vacuum. Though, your idea of the bike pump gives me an idea. An attachment to the vacuum cleaner (eg. a funnel and plastic tubing) that is small enough to be inserted into the hole might work well.

Not sure if we're on the same page, but if you use a vacuum cleaner just attach the hose to the exhaust and by all means improve its efficiency by reducing the hose to a size that can fit in the drilled hole but leave space around the hose to blow out dust. Easier to blow dust out than suck it out because there's not much scope for necessary sucking airflow in a blind hole largely filled with the hose.

I've made devices like this for other purposes where I needed a narrow hose to get into an opening, like an oil filler hole on a small engine, with progressively smaller short lengths of clear (so I can see if it's working) vinyl tubing from scrap or Bunnings and wound with plumbing Teflon tape and maybe hose clamps where necessary to get a good seal. Works fine for sucking oil out and should work fine for blowing air in.

And here's a fun fact. Vacuum cleaners in normal operation don't suck. The fan creates an area of low pressure (a vacuum) and the higher external air pressure pushes air into the low pressure / vacuum area and dust etc along with it. Won't work well if the hole in the brick etc is plugged at the entry by the tube.

Discovering this scientific reality will be a major disappointment for a vacuum cleaner seller in Ballarat whose slogan is "Everything I sell sucks!".

[r3nov8or]

I'll just leave this here...

...
I'm just suggesting there are variables