Is the building industry full of cowboys?

[bitingmidge]

However, as I've intimated, she was somewhat unique.

I do love it when those unique people get it in the end, although I suspect they never understand that they did it to themselves.

BTW, our last building contract, (nearly $40m) cost nearly $200k in legal fees shared between an enlightened client and builder.

Finished on time, on budget with all sides and occupiers still mates, so our legal fees as is mostly the case, were saved many times over, just in dispute costs alone.

While I hate paying lawyers even more than I hate paying Real Estate Salesmen , I don't understand why people embark on the largest project of their lives without taking that sort of advice, (or those who try to sell stuff themselves for that matter!).

As Boban implies folks, it's cheap insurance, (and better than that,it gives you a lawyer to sue if things go wrong! )

If you don't want to read the instructions, get a lawyer to do it for you!

P

[Honorary Bloke]

While I hate paying lawyers even more than I hate paying Real Estate Salesmen ,

You HAD ought to smile when you say that, pardner.

[Barry_White]

Being old enough to be around when silicone sealer was first introduced into the building industry and having used 1000's of tubes in the window industry and roofing industry the only way toilet pans were fixed down was with mortar and if they where done properly they never came adrift.

Mind you I've sat on a few that have come adrift and that is hairy situation when you go to use the toilet paper.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Mind you I've sat on a few that have come adrift and that is hairy situation when you go to use the toilet paper.

Thats the urban equivalent of bull riding........Ye Ha!

[silentC]

I'm reading this and thinking "what the... how the hell does one hammer a nial into steel." So in checking on Onesteels site, yes you are right with nailing BUT you didn't mention that its a special hardened stainless steel nail and appears to require a special nailer. As most blokes wouldn't have one of these the next best thing is to screw.

Yet ironically Onesteel state to use winged screw teks to flooring that is under cover.

I think you'll find that most builders these days either own or have access to a coil nailer, which is all you need. I borrowed one from a mate to do mine.

If they go ahead and use a screw, despite what OneSteel says, then they are cowboys!

BTW I have a feeling that the problem they are avoiding is due to moisture ingress. We have speculated that the water can follow the screw thread. Why it can't get in around the nail, I have no idea. Duragal members are joined with tek screws but they must have a neoprene washer and you should go to great lengths to seal all joins to prevent moisture ingress. That's another thing you're average tradie scoffs at. "You don't need all that! The paint will seal it!"

[silentC]

The Villeroy and Boch instructions (which the owner read) states that the toilet pan is to be siliconed in place. The plumber (in NSW) uses a mortar mix. She is a royal pain in the butt and wants it installed according to the instructions.

I would have rung them and asked them why they specifically require silicone. Then they would either give me a good reason, or tell me I can use mortar if I want, but silicone is more common these days. Either way, if the owner was that big a pain in the backside, I would let her know what I was doing and why. Then she couldn't complain, right?

[bitingmidge]

Being old enough to be around when silicone sealer was first introduced into the building industry and having used 1000's of tubes in the window industry and roofing industry the only way toilet pans were fixed down was with mortar and if they where done properly they never came adrift.

Ahhh yes, the good old days, before new fangled close coupled suites made in exotic locations where all tradies are craftsmen working to the mm!

Some of the tolerances (or lack thereof) in some of the new top-shelf stuff in particular has to be seen to be disbelieved!

On the other hand, I've always thought a ring of grey mortar set off the new limestone floor remarkably well!

I reckon you need to run down to the paper shop and buy a Home Beautiful to see what's changed in the last 30 years Baz, people are putting dunnies in their bedrooms now, and baths in their living rooms to boot !

Cheers,

P

[silentC]

people are putting dunnies in their bedrooms now

Jeez, that would kill the moment wouldn't it? "Just stay there and think sexy thoughts, I'll be back in a tick!"

[mathewfarrell]

...I found that nearly half the quotes I was requested to do was to repair other peoples shoddy work...

This is testimony that the cowboys can get away with it. I really respect what you mate said, Silent, about doing it right to avoid being called back. His 'disadvantage', if we can be so crass as to call it that, is operating ethically. So many person-to-person interactions and altercations rely on this, from hiring a tradie, to getting your bike fixed when someone t-bones you.

I would think that nine out of ten examples of onesteel failures never make it to a warranty claim, and of those that do, nine out of ten times the builder can't be found. Homeowner versus Onsteel—and neither of them to blame, so it goes nowhere.

I don't advocate cowboyism. I too agree that it's rife, but I certainly wouldn't stop at tradies. 'working class folk' are perhaps more blatant though than someone who wears a tie for a living (could you really trust someone who wears such a useless and unpractical article?)


From working in the bicycle industry (and being only as humble as is necessary), In many cases I knew I was more knowledgable than—or least respected by—many manufacturer/distributor warranty mechanics. We successfully made various warranty claims that by the book shouldn't have gone through, based on our trusted reputation or superior product knowledge.
Have a read through Prisig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance for a superfluous insight into factory instructions. You are definitely right though about getting someone there to explain 'why'

[Timespenttiler]

Mate there are cowboys out there but wat your saying does not define a cowboy the word is thrown around far to much by people nowing little about the meaning, i have a feeling you are not a tradesperson and neva have been would i be correct. A job should be done to trade standard and australian standard with products fit for the job at hand. I am a very successful tiler and have done my apprenticeship and other higher tickets in the trades field so i do have a right to an opionon on this matter. The information on products such as cements ect is guide only and usually based for handy man jobs not large areas most the time youll evan be told to mix it by bucket would like ur plasterer to do ur house bucket by bucket?.

[silentC]

Yee ha!!

[Ruddigar]

Yee ha!!

Touche

[echnidna]

How many it people are cowboys?

[silentC]

13,248

[silentC]

OK, I'm in a generous mood so I'll give the fellow an answer.

Mate there are cowboys out there but wat your saying does not define a cowboy

I say it does.

the word is thrown around far to much by people nowing little about the meaning,

Didn't know there was a formal meaning for the term as it pertains to tradespeople. Can you post a reference?

i have a feeling you are not a tradesperson and neva have been would i be correct.

Never said I was. Not sure what this has to do with it though. Are you saying that only a tradesperson is allowed to call someone a cowboy? Union thing is it?

A job should be done to trade standard and australian standard with products fit for the job at hand.

And used in accordance with manufacturers directions. Could not agree more.

I am a very successful tiler and have done my apprenticeship and other higher tickets in the trades field so i do have a right to an opionon on this matter.

We've only got your word for that but in any case who says that you need qualifications to have an opinion? Are you saying that only a person who has received apprenticeship training in a trade has a right to have an opinion on anything to do with the building industry? I think that the fact that it's my hard-earned money you are taking from me gives me every right to have an opinion.

The information on products such as cements ect is guide only and usually based for handy man jobs not large areas most the time youll evan be told to mix it by bucket would like ur plasterer to do ur house bucket by bucket?.

I don't give a **** how you mix it. But if it says to prime the surface first, or not use it in wet areas, or not exceed 10mm in thickness or whatever you better follow it or it will be your asre that will be getting kicked if it fails in 2 years time.

Hope that clears things up a bit.