Electrical Tagging

[soundman]

The lesson is.... always roll up power leads from the male end.

My big brother found that one out many years ago... he was an apprentice told to roll up and put away a 3 phase extention cord....was still plugged in and turned on......the lead pulled out of the male socket...... loud noises, many sparks and a change of underwear...fortunaltly no harm done.


Your cable will love you too if you roll them up the same size from the same end everytime........in a big sound and lighting rig the cables all go to the same place too so it makes even more sence........

go to the switchboard, dimmer rack, stage box or power point.....turn off the power switch and pull out the plug and start rolling.......you know it makes sence......it actulay saves time too.

cheers

[Peter_loats]

i agree, cut it, and i don't want to start any arguments, but how many of us have rewired a power lead? i have done it before at my house, it was a ext. lead connect into a 4way power board, all that was wrong was the internal cabling was showing at the plug, and i did the safer thing and re-terminated the wires to a shorter length,, simple fix and much safer then just pushing the outer sheath back in, yes i am only 16, yes i don't have an Aus electrical license, but i work in lighting hire in the service area, i will do about 4-5 plugs(463 piggyback one) daily, i know how to test my work (checking the ground is below 1 ohm and the polarity), and all work done is sent to our test and tag area, so it may be illegal for me to do that, but it is safer than before.

[horse123]

Boy, i have seen some sites, when it comes to test & tagging, you should see what some factories make there workers use, its a wonder some workers make it home at night.
In saying that i have had the pleasure of some bosses, that fall over back wards to fix the slightest faults on equipment!

[Keith_W]

Hi horse123,
As part of my job I go to many Factories for the purpose of looking at the safety of their Plant. Like what you have said some are an accident just waiting to happen, the worst was a Timber Mill, after inspecting the Machinery and the Switch Room the Plant Manager asked me my opinion. I said my honest opinion is to shut the Mill down and change the sign at the frount to Museum and charge entry, there was some serious breaches of OHS there. All places of work have a duty under Law to provide a safe place of work, it not much to ask that an employee can go to work and be safe so they can carrying out their duties.

Regards,
Keith.

[Papa]

I was an OSHA inspector for a couple of years. What a joke! Unless
someone is hurt, there is little you can do.

Some plants really try, most just don't care.

At the school where I taught they decided the extension cords were not
safe and we had to replace all of them on the TV, audio carts. About
a hundred of them. The originals were 12/3 with a three out let end.
The problem was they were hard plastic and if dropped the case would
shatter.
So They were all torn out.. taken home,, and new ones fitted. They
were power strips and were fastened to the carts and had a eight
foot cord.

I feel they did the right thing in this case.

[soundman]

As I've problay mentioned before....the QLD WHS act and the especilay the QLD electrical safety act are very nasty and agressive pieces of legestaltion.

These days there is not all that much money for inspectors so they frame strict and agressive laws and huge penalties and wait for something to go wrong.

the when the $#&T hits the fan... it's a large industrial one and the smelly stuff is supplied by an elephant with dihorea.


one of the biggest problems is that electrical work is a closed shop in QLD, regardles of how carefull you are and how much you know and your wiring skills you can not get an electrical work licence of any discription without some sort of realy good excuse.

Then if you want a full electricians licence there is only one way to get it and that is to serve an apprenticship......even if you have a masters degree in electrical engineering and design electrical components and installations for a living they wont give you an electrican full licence without an apprenticeship.

cheers

[patty]

I think the root of the problem lies back to "some of the testing and tagging companies around" as a majority of the people who work for them are not electricians they have gone to TAFE done a course on how to operate a PAT tester and test electrical equipment!!

BUT these people have no idea on the operations of electrical equipment they only know how to operate a PAT tester and it gives them a PASS or FAIL answer so they just stick a tag on the equipment tested and finished!! they dont give any considerations as to if people will still attempt to use the equipment even though their is a OUT OF Service Tag on it!

If Im working on any electrical equipment at work I have to lock out the device/Circuit so their is no way known to man that the device can become operational until I remove the lockout in this case as others have stated I woud have cut the cord at the base of the Unit or repaired it then and there

But once again it goes back to the testing and tagging companies again if they are not Electricians they cannot legally repair the unit! they can only TEST ! That is why I believe that if you employ a testing and tagging company to test equipment and with the rates they charge I would be making sure that the company sends an electrician out only, so at least he can leave the equipment in a sound and safe manner and repair if needed!!!

[soundman]

I do not believe that ( at least in QLD) that you can test and tag commercilay unless you have at least a restricted licence and the company has at least a restricted contractors licence.

AND

All the training materials and the standards will emphsise the visual and mechanical inspection as beeing at least equally important as the electrical tests.

On many items such as double insulated items the electrical tests are of very limited value.

The real problem is that a great many people are very lax on the process and concept of electrical safety......in truth many of the full ticket sparkies are the worst offendors.......I have seen many things with recent tags from electrical contractors that I would have condemmed.

cheers

[patty]

Soundman believe me it happens and is happening in NSW I've posted blogs on this subject before and have been hounded down by clowns telling me Electricity is not Rocket Science and so on and I agree Eectricity is not rocket Science BUT electricity Kills and Kills the clowns who think they know it all!!!!

[patty]

Furthermore Soundman you can go to Tafe in NSW do a 6 week or so course?? not exactly sure of the duration but its around that and be a qualified Test and Tagger!!! Its great for the no brainers as a machine does all the work ( as legally they cannot do it and they bloody well know it ) then Great instant business and to be able to justify charging like wounded bulls!!!!

[chrisp]

Its great for the no brainers as a machine does all the work

I'm not sure about the comment that the "machine does all the work". From my experience, most equipment that fails in-service testing fails before it reaches the PAT. I'd guess about 90% of failures can be picked up in the visual inspection phase.

[patty]

Too true Chrisp but as said before "some" of these companies send out their workers and their only job is to test and tag!! I'm sure "some" of them would not even do a Visual inspection of the equipment before testing the scary part is they only know where the plug and socket is!!! I've have sold previously PAT testers to the average Joes that come in off the street and they tell me they did a so many week course at Tafe and are now hitting the Building and construction sites.

Well , I say good luck to them if they can get the work but i sure as hell would never let them test any of my equipment!!!!

If i was paying a test and tagging company to come and test my electrical appliances I would want the peace of mind and convenience of knowing that they could fix the appliance then and there!!

[Jack E]

Don't forget, the tag the electrician puts on an appliance is only good until he turns his back on it.

Cheers, Jack

[Vernonv]

If i was paying a test and tagging company to come and test my electrical appliances I would want the peace of mind and convenience of knowing that they could fix the appliance then and there!!

Yes and I bet you would be paying more for that level of service.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue is here - you can pay to get a guy to tag and test your gear who has only done the course or you pay a sparky to do it. If a fault is found the non sparky can't fix it so you either pay for a replacement or for a sparky to fix it. Or if a sparky is doing the testing, you pay him more to fix the fault.

Either way you end up paying much the same.

The quality of the inspection should be the same and if it's not then you need to find a better test and tagger.

[soundman]

In QLD if you tag an item without doing the proper procedure as specified in the standarsd and legeslation... you have rocks in your head.

The phrase "40 penalty units" comes to mind.

AND...... it is worth noting that that tag I put on you item is my property.

It goes futher....In an industrial situation a log book is required to be kept and available for inspection.

Not only is it an offence to have an untaged item....you must be able to show a history of compliance.

It goes further

If there is an audit and it is found that an item was noncompliant from day one and 5 different electrical workers passed that item.......all five electrical workers can be prosecuted and fined for each individual time they passed that item as fit and it wasn't.

Th real rub and all sorts of electrical workers are not aware of this.
Not only do you have to comply with the standard on "In service inspection and testing of appliances"...which is relativly simple.......... you must also know if the item complies with a variety of relivent standards applicable to that item.

So if the fuse holder is not of a compliant type, you must fail the item.
If you could have reasonably been expected to detect any form of noncompliance with that item you are responsible.

There are quite a lot of older items that are simply not compliant in some way...but if you do not know your standards you would not know.

So if a powerdrill has a 6 inch long mains cord..... you must fail it because thereis a specific minimum length for an appliance cord.

and it goes on and on.

To do the job properly you realy need to know your stuff...... and you do not get a proper test and tag for $5 an item.

Oh here is a good one.

What do you do with an electrical item that has a removable mains cord.

Answer......the removable mains cord and the appliance must be tested and tagged and log booked seperately.

I do not know how many tines I have seen an applince with a tag only on the removable mains cord.

cheers