parental responsibility

[Alastair]

More cents worth on the above...

The smack/not smack debate can go on forever. It is easy to say that "I take a moral stand not to smack", but remember, if you get it wrong, by the time you find out, it is way too late to correct the error, and another life has been stuffed up by the experiment.

This is just as true for the reverse, I accept.

To digress, as we evolved, before the days of moral stands, and psychologists, it is likely that our behaviour patterns, mores and codes probably evolved apace. There was unlikely to be much latitude for the neanderthal kid who refused to sit quietly while the sabre-tooth walked past the cave.

I believe, when looked at across a range of "primitive" societies, and our other primate relatives, that the discipline imposed is generally immediate, and physical, and seldom brutal. There is unlikely however to be the command "go up to your branch, and stay there until you want to behave"

Along with this, is the fact that we evolved as a communal animal, where any disciplining would have taken place in public view. As such, there was a community brake on the development of any excessive punishment. This is still evident in eg african communities, where the mothers' brothers are those responsible for the discipline and physical wellbeing of a child.

With the modern move to nuclear families, these communal controls and safeguards are disabled, and the upsurge in abuse is inevitable. However, a 'smack" as discipline, is not abuse.

However, kids have a short attention span, and a quick, direct smack in response to unacceptable behaviour is, I believe, far more effective than deprival of priviledges, which by definition has to drag on, and lose its relevance.

This aside, however: The important thing is that the censure, whatever it is, is understood, expected, (warn first) and inevitable. It must also be stuck to. This is much simpler with a smack on the bottom, than for instance enforcing "No TV for 2 weks for you". The danger is that when it is not followed through, it becomes ineffective. Therin, to me lies the biggest contributor to the problem

My kids were smacked (not beaten) when their behaviour required, from when thy were small. They were always warned, and 'when', (not if) they repeated it to see if you 'really' meants it, they always were punished. They always knew why they were punished, and it was always done immediately, by the closest available parent. There was no 'wait until dad gets home', and once dealt with by one parent, the issue was closed.

They are now 11 & 13. I doubt if either has been smacked, except as a token to make an extreme point in 3 years. They are not cowed or submissive, and are as argumentative as hell about anything which comes up, but the habits and self discipline inculcated earlier mean that they are accepting of our role as final arbiters, not because they are scared of what we will do.

Enough of a long rambling rant on a contentious subject, which is unlikely to reach any conclusion. It is interesting to see the varied viewpoints, however.

Alastair

[jackiew]

LineLefty if you can bring up your kids with no smacking etc then all credit to you. Its an admirable aim and most of us set out with the aim of using little or no punishment.

The parents smacking their kids in the supermarket are having one of the more miserable experiences of life, trying to shop with a whiny child is the pits. It would be great if shopping could always be a fun relaxed experience for parents and kids but mostly it isn't.

Looking after 20 kids in a nursery or prep class would be my idea of hell and I have absolute admiration for anyone who can do it. I suspect however that its easier than looking after 3 kids at home when you're trying to do all the household chores at the same time. And at the nursery you know that home time will eventually arrive. At home you're stuck with it 24 x 7 with no time off for good behaviour.

If you can give them your undivided attention kids are fantastic. Unfortunately we often can't give them our undivided attention. Sometimes the parent in charge has to cook tea, do the shopping, hang out the washing etc etc. At which point Junior decides to torture the cat, poor talc down the ducted heating vents or do anything to get back that undivided attention even at the risk of a clip round the ear or loss of privileges.

By the way I don't endorse beating children ( although I'd make an exception if my offspring had burnt down someone's house ... in fact I'd probably wouldn't intervene if the owner of the house beat him to a pulp as I figure he'd deserve it).

It would have been nice if:

I actually respected them
They knew just a little bit about me
I was able to talk to them about the issues that all teens go thru.

Basically, if I could have been "friends" with them.

Don't get me wrong when I say that I'm not my son's friend ... I'm not saying that I don't have what appears (to me at least )to be a good relationship with him... I'm saying that there are times when he can't do what he wants to do just because he wants to do it.

When he was smaller those would be the times when he didn't get his way and he would scream at me that he hated me, that he didn't want me to be his mum etc etc. And your child probably will frequently "hate" you too. Its grim when it happens but in my opinion the result when parents continually give way to their kids trying to be their friends is even worse.

My son's dad was 24 when my son was born and I think most of his mates were horrified that he was going to be a dad at that age.

The only bit of advice I would give you is keep an eye on the balance between parents with respect to time to do the fun things with the baby and time to spend on their own interests.

Sadly its often the dad that gets to spend time with the kid doing nothing else but play and then goes off to the football by himself whereas mum only gets to spend time playing time with the kid by stealing it from the pile of ironing, the washing up or some other chores that are still going to have to be done and as a result has little or no time to herself ever.

[Honest Gaza]

I have 3 children....17, 12 & 3. I must admit, that my discipline techniques have altered over the years. The 17 year old was unlucky enough to get me at my "least experienced" as a parent...and as a result...got the proverbial boot up the **** on occasions. The 12 year old, and now the 3 year old, get me as a parent who is more prepared to "negotiate". However, a stern voice does work wonders.

Both of them know that if negotiations fail.....I am prepared to offer a smack to the backside.

As someone previously mentioned, I too have made it patently clear to my wife that if the children muck up while I am at work....she has to deal with the punishment. Don't let me be the bad man when I get home.

[Barry_White]

My kids have grown up and left home and of course I have taken their keys off them so that they can't come back home.

My two daughters didn't give us much problems but my son was pretty difficult but at the age of 35 has turned out OK.

I have a nephew though whose mother was a single mum and he was a real monster especially if he had sweet things etc. to eat and would bash into adults and was uncontrollable.

I would have diagnosed him as so called ADD or ADHD with his behaviour but my opinion has changed for his mother has married a policeman when he was aged 6 who started to administer loving discipline. He is now 8 years old and he is now a real gentleman and a pleasure to be around as well as being very intelligent.

I have changed my opinion on some so called ADD and ADHD diagnoses and really believe loving discipline that sets boundries for some of these kids.

The trouble is that a lot of parents set conflicting boundries for their kids and this causes a lot of the problems.

I know in hindsite that I could have done better with my son and I was probably the cause of some of his bad behaviour. But as Silent C said the trouble is that they dont come with a user manual

[Wongo]

Treat your kid like you treat your Tryton. Handle it with of care. Spend time to set it up probably. Knock it with a small hammer and screw driver occasionally. :eek:

Warning: do not paint you kids orange and do not return them.

Sorry guys

[Sturdee]

Warning: do not paint you kids orange.

But you can dress them in orange Just like the Orange people.


Peter.

[gemi_babe]

Tough Love vs. Smacking

Most of the population think it very improper to spank children, so my hubby and I have tried other methods to control our kids when they have one of "those moments".

One that we found very effective is for me to just take the child for a car ride and talk. They usually calm down and stop misbehaving after our little car ride together.

I've included the photo below of one of my sessions, with our son, in case you would like to use the technique.

Its very effective! Let me know how you go and if its as effective for you as it was for us.

[gatiep]

MMMMM I'll also pull a face like that if the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car, and especially if we're driving on the right!


:eek:

[Alastair]

Go Gemi!!