Cabots Danish Oil formula change?

[LGS]

Hi Ern,
Wet sanding does give you polymerisation, due to the heat from the friction generated by the sanding. But there is no doubt that the heat generated does hard burnish (where burnishing would be giving the oil a good vigorous rub) so that you get a result in less time and less effort. The interesting thing about all this is that you can use just about any oil that doesn't have Poly or some hardeners in it to achieve the hard burnish.

Grab some BLO and try sanding dry up to 400g then use a 500 or 600 and then a 1200 and if you can a 1500 as well. Even if you can get to 1000, you'll start to see a great result.

I think you'll find it takes less time and less effort than you expect to give a beautiful finish. Let me know how it goes. Oh! And remember to use a ROS, not an orbital. The orbital won't really generate enough heat.

Thanks Wood Hacker for the timely note.

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Here are the pics of the timber after one week of drying and hardening.
Figs 1-3. Are BLO, Wattyl and HBO in that order.
Figs 4-6. Are the three oils (same order as above) with cold water applied and allowed to sit for 5 minutes.
Figs 7-9. Are the three oils post water treatment (same order)
Figs 10. Is the three oils all with Spray and Wipe added. This was allowed to sit for 3 minutes before wiping off.
Figs' 11-13. Are the 3 oils after wiping off the Spray and Wipe. (same order as above)

There is no apparent grain lifting and still no damage inflicted by either cold water or Spray and Wipe on any of the oils.

Do we really need to go to three weeks do you think? I'm happy to do it, but is it necessary?

Regards,

Rob

[rsser]

Thanks.

No, I don't see any advantage in more hardening.

Would be interested in seeing what say 4 hours of wetting did, or a few drops of wine.

[LGS]

Hi Ern,

I'll put some red wine on the oils and sit a glass in the middle of it for four hours. If the oils survive that, they'll survive anything!
Publish the results later today.

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Hi all,
OK..to finish the testing, I have done the following.

I incubated the board with the three oils on it with a splash of Penfolds Koonunga Hill Cab Sav 2010.
In addition i put a small beer glass inverted on each sample to allow a ring to form, such as one would see on a table after a raucous party.
The samples were then incubated on the bench at Room Temp for 4 hours.

At this time the wine had dried onto the samples, except for the area around the lip of the glass.

The samples were then wiped down with a damp kitchen sponge and then cleaned with Spray and Wipe.
After 10 minutes, results were noted. Then again after 20 minutes.

Results:

1. The sample of HBO showed absolutely no sign of the red wine as a ring or as a smudge elsewhere on the sample, both at 10 minutes and 20 minutes post Spray and Wipe. The wood was in perfect condition.

2. Both the BLO and the Wattyl Teak oil showed clear rings of darker colour at 10 minutes post Spray and Wipe, but this was gone at 20 minutes.

So my conclusion is, that if you want to finish a high traffic area table or "thing", then HBO is the go. For items under less stress, you could burnish either BLO or Wattyl Teak Oil.

My routine regime is to use HBO on Dining tables and Coffee tables, but use the Wattyl Teak Oil on other items such as boxes. The finish is impossible to differentiate.

Figures below show the relevant data.

Pic. 1. The three samples with the red wine and glasses in place at t=0.
Pics. 2-4. show the individual glasses and wine on the board at t= 4 hours. You can see the dried wine residue and the clear ring of wet wine.
Pic. 5 shows the rings of wine where the glasses were placed on the three samples.
Pics 6-8 Show the samples after wiping down then washed with Spray and Wipe and left for 10 minutes. You can see the dark rings on the HBO and Wattyl oil.
Pics 9-11. Show the samples after 20 minutes drying time. Though it is possible to imagine that there is still evidence of darkness in a ring pattern on the BLO and Wattyl samples, but looking at the board directly, there is no evidence of a stain on either sample.

So what do you think of Hard Burnishing as a way of protecting wood without the need for Polyurethane? Finish is smooth and resilient, and being that the HBO and Wattyl oil at least are penetrating oils, small problems can be fixed by wiping a small amount of the oil of choice over the damaged section and thus alleviate the situation.
If any one in Melbourne wants to see the board, I'm happy to show it to you. If anyone in other states wants to see it, I'll post it to you, but I want it back

If any one wants to do one on one training, I'm up for it, at a reasonable cost.

Regards,

Rob

[rsser]

Impressive.

Thanks Rob.

[Dengue]

Well done Rob, very impressive.

To wrap it up and do the study justice, would you like to give us a summary of your key findings, and your conclusions?

[old_picker]

back to the OP - i don't believe Cabots DO has changed much if at all - i didn't realise the directions had changed
i still use the same technique i always have and it works as well as it always has
sand with an orbital sander up to 2500 grit using wet'n'dry from 400
by then the timber will be reflecting light -final sand is with the back of wet'n'dry paper -
reflectivity increases by 2-3 times - a soft sheen if you like - its now burnished

no danish has got any where near the job up to this point
then i start in with danish and flood the surfaces liberally and leave for about 5 mins
then rub it off quite vigorously with a soft rag or paper towels - the paper towels seem to add more sheen
leave 12-24 hours and repeat twice more
leave for approx 7 days in a warm room and then go over it with wiping varnish maybe 2 coats max 3
by this time the DO has gone off pretty well and doesnt smell
i actually think the wiping varnish spoils it a fraction but it really seals off the timber
i prefer the danish without the WV

it always looks fabulous and IMHO if someone is going to put glasses of wine or a cuppa tea straight onto an oiled finish they don't deserve to have that beautiful look-
better off with that stuff you pour onto bench tops and sets like glass or at least neat polyurethane

[LGS]

Well old picker,
It's always good to hear other peoples finishing methods. How do you know you have actually burnished the oil into the timber? Why the varnish? It makes it effectively not an oil finish and more like "the plastic stuff you pour on tables" Good to see you realise the advantage of using high grit papers when you sand
Personally and only personally, I prefer to have just the oil and with it the durability that comes with true burnishing. (which , by the way is more that wet and dry sanding)
Again, great to see your method, but probably wouldn't use it.

LGS

[old_picker]

Well old picker,
It's always good to hear other peoples finishing methods. How do you know you have actually burnished the oil into the timber? Why the varnish? It makes it effectively not an oil finish and more like "the plastic stuff you pour on tables" Good to see you realise the advantage of using high grit papers when you sand
Personally and only personally, I prefer to have just the oil and with it the durability that comes with true burnishing. (which , by the way is more that wet and dry sanding)
Again, great to see your method, but probably wouldn't use it.

LGS

the timber is burnished before the Danish goes on burnishing is another work for polishing - you can burnish many things to get a soft sheen
seen it done on pottery - see samian ware - roman empire ceramics
the wiping varnish is an added precaution against beer and sweat - i am finishing guitars this way

[LGS]

Good. So you'll appreciate what hard burnishing certain oils does. Certainly it polishes , but it also polymerises the oil within The timber which gives the durability I speak of. So all I can say is yet get a nice finish, but it' not in anyway the same as what I do . Horses for courses I guess.

[old_picker]

Good. So you'll appreciate what hard burnishing certain oils does. Certainly it polishes , but it also polymerises the oil within The timber which gives the durability I speak of. So all I can say is yet get a nice finish, but it' not in anyway the same as what I do . Horses for courses I guess.

not it is not the same - but it is what works in my workshop for me - i am not saying there is a comparison between the way you do it and the way i do it
my point is burnishing is a generic term that can be applied to various materials and methods - it does not relate particularly to wood or oil or both together
you can burnish a given material without the use of oil - you have chosen a method that involves both wood and oil

defined
burnish - verb
gerund or present participle: burnishing
polish (something, especially metal) by rubbing.
"highly burnished armour"
synonymsolish (up), shine, brighten, rub up/down, buff (up), smooth, glaze;

[LGS]

All I'm saying is that your method wil not give a durable result using oil only. What works for you is just fine.

[old_picker]

All I'm saying is that your method will not give a durable result using oil only. What works for you is just fine.

if i may i would like to ask a question
if i need to remove the cabots DO i generally have to sand it off - no solvent seems to remove it - usually only a small area but it takes a bit of work
ie if my signature gets smudged i may want to take it back to bare wood and redo it
have you any suggestions as to what might remove it??
tried paint stripper, thinners, acetone etc etc

[LGS]

Hi Ray,
I
'm afraid that I gave Cabot's DO one try several years ago. It didn't work well with the heat caused by the friction of the sander, which led me to believe that it contained Polyurethane. If I need to dilute Tung Oil, I use White Spirit and sand back with a high grit to remove any oil where I don't want it.You might find that gentle ROS sanding with say, 400 or 800g may take some of the DO away Ideally I think you need something that will soften the PU. I think maybe Turps would do the trick.

Good Luck,

Regards,

Rob