The dissapearing finish

[ubeaut]

With any Organoil product you need to follow the instructions to the letter if it says 600 grit or more they mean up to 2000 grit which is what they use in their demo's.

Sand usually in all cases means with a Random Orbital Sander. It can be done by hand but not very well and almost impossible on a table. Orbital sander doesn't really cut the mustard either.

As for reapplying now I would give it a really good wash down with turpentine and some clean rag as the Traditional Wax may stop the other oil from setting off. For that matter so might the Organoil. I would stick with the Organoil for further applications as it will definitely be compatible with what's on there already.

As for waxing over Organoil there is no problem with this. Just don't apply any wax to it until the it is dead dry and there is no hint of the Organoil aromatics. This can be anywhere from weeks to months and is a reason why many dislike the product and just as many love it.

The aromatics (smell) is basically off gassing the natural oils in the product and will keep most waxes soft and possibly draw then into the finish. Which appears to be what has happened here. On the other hand, waxing over a finish that isn't properly cured can also stop or dramatically retard the curing process as it is sealing the original finish from the air

Have you actually tried giving the surface of the timber a good hard buffing with a clean soft rag? If not give it a go before anything else and see if it improves at all. It's quite possible it will.

Rule of thumb for me as to when to apply wax:

• Over a shellac: depending on amount of coats any where from a day to a week after application.
• Over French Polish: Never. Unless you're a poor French polisher or want a special effect. If done correctly it's too good to bugger up with wax.
• Over Nitro or other lacquer: After a week.
• Over Polyurethane: At least a week or more or when the surface feels hard and no longer feels rubbery.
• Over most Danish Oils: After all applications have completely dried for a few weeks.
• Over ordinary oiled surfaces: When all traces of oil are completely gone and the surface is dead dry. By dead dry I mean dead dry not even a hint of there ever being oil applied. Most oiled surface can take a life time of finishing to achieve the end result and shouldn't need waxing as that look being sought should be dull to soft satin finish.
• Over any Organoil product: Up to a month or more - Minimum of a couple of weeks. Wait till the smell has gone and the surface has dulled dramatically and in most cases it will.
• Over raw timber: Straight after sanding to 800 grit or above. Ideally over a really weak shellac sanding sealer which has been sanded to your highest grit abrasive 1200 or above. Further applications of wax every couple of days for a week and weekly for a month, then as needed for repair and upkeep.

Think that's just about covered it all.

Cheers - Neil

[Tex B]

Thanks Neil. Very helpful tips. I've heard two weeks for Danish Oil, but sounds like that should be the minimum.

Tex

[Howdya do that]

Thanks Neil, very much appreciated.

Martrix, I'll chuck the can at my next project and send you the pics

[Howdya do that]

I tried removing what wax might be left with the danish oil and this didn't appear to work 2 days later I tried Methelated spirits, more Danish oil, same result
Please excuse me if my terminology is poor but i'll try to explain a bit more.

It has blotches or patches all over it, I tried taking more photo's but it just doesn't stand out. The best example is the picture of the leg on page 1. You can see shiny, darker looking, horizontal lines, this looks to me like a grain pattern but some of the patches on the wider timber are "cloud shaped"


Should I try some sort of stain to get an eveness? It seems like such a pity to stain what was beautiful timber until I stuffed it up but it looks like crap

[ubeaut]

You should have washed it down with turpentine as per my above post.

As for reapplying now I would give it a really good wash down with turpentine and some clean rag as the Traditional Wax may stop the other oil from setting off. For that matter so might the Organoil. I would stick with the Organoil for further applications as it will definitely be compatible with what's on there already.

You can't wash wax off or anything else for that matter with a finish (Danish Oil) You might just as well trying to wash grease off polyurethane with with coat of white paint. Waste of time and won't work.

Metheyated spirits was also a complete waste of time as it isn't compatible with the wax, which by then would have been firmly locked in by the Danish Oil you applied over it and metho isn't compatible with the Danish oil either so all you are doing is compounding the problem and making it more and more worse.

Staining won't help at all. It will only make it worse and probably make the dull bits stand out even more than they do now. Wast of time doing anything much more than sanding it right back and starting again as anything else will only add to the problems.

Even if you sand it sight back it would be wise to continue using the Organ Oil as I doubt you will be able to sand back far enough to get rid of it all. Follow instructions for Organ Oil to the letter and listen to those who know when they give you advice. Very seldom will you get bad advice on here.

Cheers - Neil

[Howdya do that]

If you want to clean rest of the wax off I would use more Organoil on a cloth. The Organoil will melt the remaining wax and clean it up.

I think you can safely apply cabots over the top. I would give it a thorough wipe down with mineral turps and leave it for a few days.

Thanks for your help and constructive critism Neil
But then again you are the BOSS.

[Claw Hama]

Hi guys, I often use danish oil and 0000 steel wool to clean up all sorts of finishes old and new. Steel wool and turps would work as well, the oil and turps are just a lubriant. I thought the cloth might have been abrasive enough on the new wax and oil. Sory if I caused you any extra grief Hdt.
Take Neils advice of course, he is the God!!

[Howdya do that]

No need to apologise Claw Hama. I appreciate you trying to help.

[ubeaut]

But then again you are the BOSS

Too right I am, The Bloody Old Sheeit Stirrer ( or Shellac Seller) take your pick

Take Neils advice of course, he is the God!!

That's GOD as in Great Old Dude.

Originally Posted by Claw Hama
If you want to clean rest of the wax off I would use more Organoil on a cloth. The Organoil will melt the remaining wax and clean it up.

It may melt the waxmay) but it won't remove it. If anything it will dilute it a little and spread it around it won't take it off. It will still be there on the surface only now it'll be locked in with the new application of oil, which will compound the problem. (

Originally Posted by martrix I think you can safely apply cabots over the top. I would give it a thorough wipe down with mineral turps and leave it for a few days.

As Matrix said,"I think you can safely apply Cabots." It's possible there could have been a compatibility problem. This is why I said: stick with the Organoil for further applications as it will definitely be compatible with what's on there already. As Matrix rightly said, and I also said: give it a really good wash down with turpentine and some clean rag as the Traditional Wax may stop the other oil from setting off.
A few of basics worth noting.

• If in doubt read all instructions and follow them (preferably) to the letter. They're written by the manufacturer so people won't muck it up and complain.
• Don't try and improve an ordinary finish by waxing it. Wax is only ever at it's best when when used over a good finish or used as a finish in it's own right.
• If a finish stuffs up, re finish it with the same finish, but first retrace your steps and see what you did wrong.
• If a finish stuffs up rub it out and start again. Either with the same product and the instructions or with a different product and the instructions.
• Don't try to fix one stuffed up finish with an different finish it never works and if it does it will inevitably go wrong somewhere down the track because of miss matched finishes.
• If you want to put anything over wax make sure you thoroughly wash off all traces of the wax with turpentine.
• One of the few finishes that can be used successfully over wax is shellac. It'll stick to just about anything. But you still need to wash off as much wax as possible with turpentine before applying the shellac.

The above are just the tip of a massive, finishing iceberg.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands more basic things to do with finishing that could be put down here, but much of it comes down to common sense. However, when it comes to problems it almost always comes down to knowing your product and how to use it. Very seldom is a fault caused by the product. Almost always it's the fault of the user, either in preparation, application or or finishing off.

Cheers - Neil

[Howdya do that]

OK,

Sanding, Sanding, Sanding, Sanding

Are we there yet

[ubeaut]

Hehehehe

If you sand till only dust comes onto the abrasive paper (not clogged with oil or anything but sanding dust) you should be able to apply any finish, as you are going back onto raw timber. Good time to try the Cabot's mentioned by Martrix. Sand to at least 600 grit to make sure you have a good silky base to begin with. If the paper clogs then there's probably still some residual oil left. You may also be able to smell it in the sanding dust.

Cheers - Neil

[Howdya do that]

This thread is turning into a bit of a RIP (Repair in Progress).

I sanded to 400 grit last night, and the wee hours of this morning. I used 4 x 120 disks and a full sheet for hand sanding and thought I had all the finish off but when I changed to 240 I still got some gumming so that took 2 x 240 disks then 400 which showed no gumming at all.
I've never gone past 400 before, probably because I have enough trouble sourcing 400 disks out here in the sticks but I'll get some 600 paper today and do it by hand

Maybe, fingers crossed, pictures with atleast one coat of the cabots by Monday

[martrix]

look forward to seeing the results.

Wouldn't hurt to do this as a final step.

When you've finished sanding and are ready to apply the oil, do this. Carefully blow the dust out of the grain with compressed air (goggles, dust mask ) and rub over all of the surfaces with a clean damp white cloth, not a soaking wet one, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.. Just enough to add some moisture to the grain to raise the fibres. It will help show up any imperfections etc left in the timber as well as aiding the finishing process.

Let it thoroughly dry and go over it again lightly with the same grade paper that you used before you wet it to remove the raised grain....then you can throw the Cabots at it.