Developing Finishing Technique

[NewLou]

Gidday Richard

The attempt I'm making at developing a good Wipe on Varnish incoporates probably the greatest finishing ingredient there is............patience.

This ones more for fine furnature pieces rather than production runs in which spray applictions dominate and rightly so just for the reasons you have outlined.

My motivation comes from what I consider pretty poor results from products in the present market. I'm trying not to suggest that these finishes don't work well BUT am convinced that I can come up with something better (I Hope)

At the very least I'll know exactly what is in them and can adjust things as required. Using a wipe on technique is pretty effecient particularly if you setup your applicator (Much like a polishers rubber) and take care in regards to how much finish is applied to it.

Dry time between coats is at least 12 hrs...................I prefer 24. To date I've applied 3 coats and plan to do around 10 due to the thinness of the coat being applied.

I'll be trying a few combinations to the mix..................specially more tung oil in an attempt to bring out more figure in the stock ................. but at this stage thats down the track.


Don't worry I'll be mucking round with some spraying in the not to distant future


Regards Lou

[dhurrang]

Hey Lou,

Good thread

The pics below are some experiments I've been doing (right or wrong I don't know)

Pic1 is Blue Gum (left) and Yellow Box (right). I've sanded using the ROS to 400 and then used Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil as per instructions :eek: The Minister is stunned !! "You read the instructions ????!!!!!!"

Not quite the finish I expected but certainly shows the patina

Pic2 is Blue Gum picture frame mouldings I'm trying to sand seal with an old bottle of "white polish" and the ROS. Polish purchased at the "B" shop on special (age). Metho cleanup so I presume shelack based (white shelack???). seems to do the job

I'd like a glossier finish !!!!! but sealing the organoil seems a bit of a waste

I know one thing though ..... 90% of the finish is in the prep. ya gotta luv sanding

[Richardwoodhead]

Hi Lou,

Having been a keen reader of your comments over the last couple of years, I appreciate the enthusiasm, dedication and professionalism of your approach to woodworking. Wish I knew how to put those smiling picture faces here, so I could add a string of them.

Anyway, I hear what you're saying about production finishes and there's certainly truth in that. The modern furniture production guys, even the high end galleries that I'm aware of, seem to opt for the quicker, lacquer spray finishes.

In my own case, I started with your approach. I could write a small book on the journey I've trod trying to achieve a good finish. It is, I reckon, the most difficult aspect to making fine furniture. In summary though, I started with the pure oils. Doing everything I could to get a nice satin finish that showed off the grain. Life is too short. Plus they are just not durable under attack from kids spills and hot objects. Then I went to the mixes - where you are now - cooking my own. And I did multiple tests on multiple test pieces. I ended up with about the mix that you're now using - maybe one part less turps. (I even used the exact same Feast Watson Poly). And I was prepared to be patient (was patient) and spend days applying multiple coats. But I found I still couldn't achieve a great finish with the wipe on oil/poly mixes until I had done a final rub down with some kind of wax (cornauba) or EEE Ultrashine. Then one day, for the heck of it, I sprayed on my oil/poly mix. It was an epiphany. I still did the 8 hours to overnight wait between spray coats (so patience is required). But the spray application gave a much smoother and more even coat and I think it puts on more product. After experimenting with this I found (with only 5-10% turps) I could get a great final oil/poly finish with only 2 full spray coats. Especially table tops. (For tricky things like cabinets / vertical surfaces, I went for 3 or 4 thinner coats). And the final rub down with EEE was optional. I looked great either way.

So in my journey, I used to wander around the furniture shops & galleries & exhibition halls tearing at my hair wondering how the heck these guys got such great finishes (this was during my pure oil phase). Then I started with the mixes. Then spraying. Have you looked around at what finishes you admire and what they did to achieve them? That started my move away from the pure oils.

Anyway, all offered as food for your thinking. I know you'll end up with a great finish that works well for you.

Cheers,

Richard

[NewLou]

Gidday Richard

Nothing short of fantastic stuff! I really do appreciate your words of wisdom.............theres nothing like getting first hand advise from someone who has already trodden this ground!

I totally agree with all your comments and have come to accept that I'll have to explore spraying in the not to distant future. However I think a number of quivers in the bowstring are well worth having and developing a good varnish is definately up there

Today much the same as your story witht he sparying I was mucking around with a few ideas and came up with a finish that I really like.

Not a varnish but definately suited to low traffic 'pieces' where armour plating the finish from the kids the dog and whatever else plagues a nice piece of furnature under heavy traffic conditions!

Heres a picture of the stock pre and post finish. I achieved this in about 20 minutes. Its Redgum and feels silky to the touch the finish brings out the figure of the timber and looks stunning.

REgards Lou

[NewLou]

Gidday

I've continued to refine the finish I have been working on and am getting really happy with the results.

Heres a few Pics of the progression

Is a bit hard to pick up the deepening in lusture I've achieved in the Pics But definately an improvement on my last attempt

REgards Lou

[NewLou]

Heres what I did:

Prep stock in your favourate manner I began mine with A Hand Scraper then:

1. ROS 240 grit
2. HAndsand 320 grit
3. Poor some pure tung oil onto the stock then HAndsand with 400 grit Wet & dry.

Now heres where things get a bit unconventional (AFter Wiping off excess oil until stock is dry to the touch)

4. Jump to 1000 grit wet & dry then HAndsand
5. 1200 W@D then Hand Sand
6. 2000 W@D then HAndsand to desired sheen.

Once again an unorthadox step

7. Then I get a swansdown Mop (From U Beaut of course) and polish the Wood to desired Sheen with my hammer drill (Set in drill mode fastest speed)
8. Than apply coat of U Beaut Clear traditional wax and Sand with swansdown mop on slowest speed with hammer drill.

The results are simply stunning! I cant wait to try some EEE as a final touch to the Finish. The finish is simply sensuous to the touch with a deep lusture and medium sheen.

Regards Lou

[Carpenter]

You blokes are raising some good points about finishes. I'm one of the "shedless souls", so am no where near beginning this quest, but the experience I've had with Organoil is that the sheen level all comes back to the fineness of the sanding. Up to 400 dry, then continuing up as far as you like gives an ever improving sheen. It seems to be the secret with the oils.
Lou, your first pic gives a good indication of sheen, what grade did you use?

[Carpenter]

Ahh, you beat me too it!

[johncee1945]

[quote=NewLou]Gidday

I'd like to get some feedback from forum members about what kind of cloth/setup is your favourate for wiping on finishes.
-------------------------------------------

Hi Lou my favourite cloth is a slightly heavy cotton canvas because it does not leave much lint or dust on the workpiece. Another regular is those rubberised cheap dishwashing cloths you get in packs. Always using a spiraling motion.

[NewLou]

Gidday

Well I got to say its looking like finishing has a lot to do with preparation and getting a feel for applying a certain kind of finish.

After mucking round with preparing my own wipe on varnish I decided to take a crack at using tung oil. Now comes the other ingredient patience

So far I've been compelled to sand up to 2000 grit for penatrive finishes like Tung oil. TOtally unnecessary BUT works for me

I think theres a great article in one of the recent Fine Woodworking editions on how far to go when preping stock in regards to sanding which gets things into perspective.

Heres the method I used:

1. Prep Tung oil (Howards) with some Terebine (feast N Watson)
2. Apply 1 coat of Tung with favourate rag n leave for fifteen minutes
3. Buff off with clean rag n check every half our or so for Tung Oil seeping out of the grain...................Clean up as required n let dry over night.
4.Next apply another coat of Tung but this time sand with 600grit Wet and Dry until a slurry is formed continue process until your satisfied the grain is filled.
5. Repeat steps 2 and 3 I did this 7 times
6. Apply U Beat trippleEEE to dried finish I initially buffed this by Hand then I sanded the trippleEEE in with A makita Palm Sander at 2000 grit (Only a light Sand with the grain)
7. Buff finish with Swansdown Mop using your Favourate Method (I use a Bosch HAmmer Drill at low speed then final buff at high speed) VAriable spped hammer drills are really handy with a swansdown mop!!!!!!

For my first go at a Tung Oil Finish I'm really happy with the results. The stock has been grain matched and edge glued straight down the middle which came up a treat.

IF anyone else would like to share their favourate technique with tung oil would be really appreciated

Regards Lou

[Waldo]

G'day NewLou,

You've raised a great thread here which is very timely for me. I'm building a cabinet for my hand tools and it raises a questiion I was going to start as a thread, but it links on from yours, so I'll ask it here.

With a cabinet having shelves etc which creates different planes on which to apply eg. tung oil, would you apply the oil to pieces individually then assemble or fully assemble then apply the finish?

The later to my thinking, presents possible prolems in that you are presented with horizontal and vertical surfaces with 90º corners which may open yourself up to drips, runs etc.

Also what is the preferred method to apply tung oil? Wet & Dry paper 400 grit, lint free cloth or other?

cabinet will be made from T/Oak and Jarrah.

[NewLou]

Gidday Waldo

At the end of the day your questions come down to what your wanting to achieve and why. A hand tool Cabinate in your Shop might not attract the attention to detail a heirloom piece might demand.

IF its purpose is just storage for your tools you'll knock it up n solve the problems you face as you go. However based on the the stock you've chosen I'd take a guess that you'd like to create something with a little visual impact that adds to the character of your shop

Planing how your going to go about crafting your cabinate will no doubt save a bit of time and get the best results in regards to achieving your goals.

IF its case work do your sanding and all but the last coat or two (Your bound to get a few scratches n dings along the way that will need ironing out) so for me I definately agree with your inclination to do most of your finishing as you go.

My application process of choice is a lint free cloth I don't use any sandpaper unless I plan to fill the grain or burnish. The more coats applied the more gloss achieved!

I've noticed MAster craftsman like David MArks finish before or after depending on the form & style of the 'piece' he's working on so as always it appears theres no hard n fast rules on this one

Would be great to see you post a few pics here to show your finish of!

REgards Lou

[poida]

Hello all, This is my first post on the forum and would like to say thankyou for a very informative thread!!

I have just finished making a Jarrah Queen size bed (pics below) and was a bit baffled as to what finish to go for or even what grit to sand up to for that matter. Seems in the past i have been oversanding as a fair few here mention to sand to up to 400. I had pretty good stock to start with so i have ROS sanded with 320 then 400. Looking great so far.

After lurking around here for the last week or two i've decided on Feast & Watson Floorseal (I prefer a smooth satin finish thats easily maintainable for scratches and the like) with a bit of Mahogony prooftint stain (10%) to get that really deep red Jarrah look. I have tested on an offcut and comes up beauitful. I woulld like to get a slight sheen on the timber for the final finish and from the posts above, EEE Ultrashine looks like it will do it

Thank you

[NewLou]

Gidday Poida

Sounds like shell come up a treat keep us posted on how you get on n make sure you post when shes finished

Great to hear from you

REgards Lou

[Cruzi]

The Ubueat EEE stuff, I thought was like a "cut and polish" thus I used a lambswool buff, like you do when polishing cars, it seemed to work OK , but noticed you guys seem to use ROS with a very fine sandpaper....
Am I doing it wrong?