Owner Building - YES or NO?

[ozwinner]

I guess you could say that but she is just a mum with three young kids an runs a gift shop. Also lived in all the houses she built...........

Greolt

....................For 12 months to escape the CGT.

Al

[Gaza]

last time i check most builders doing renos and ad's are not driving around in BWM's. Builders do not charge that much on job of the sub trades and materials. At the end of the day the margin would be equal to the discount that you would miss out on being owner builder.

Owner builders can save heaps of cash but this requries doing all most all the work them selfs and sourcing cheap materials.

Another issue is if you owner build them you have a time limittation period that you can not sell unless you get an isure to issue home owners warrinity insurnace.

Go to the course and then talk to others have done it before making the move. Maybe get a builder to do up to lock then manage the finishes your self, as these are major cost areas for materials. (IE kitchens, tiles, fixtures fittings)

[Ian007]

In my opinion you in fact wont save any money by doing it yourself, I believe it will cost you more and probably a lot more.

Builders gets massive discounts for materials
you will not get these price savings.

ie roof tiles builders get a 75% discount
you will be lucky to get 10%. This discount structure works for everything you will need for your house. Timber, concrete, plumbing, wiring, steel, kitchen, no matter what you get a builder will get a better price, no matter what and there is your 40K

The facts are builders have full time staff to price stuff, they know what a certain trade will charge for labour or the going rate is for meterage ect.
you dont.

I can promise you what Al said is a fact. You will not get any discount from your tradies as your job is a one off and there is no ongoing work for them.
Just why should they give you a cheaper price?
Whats in it for them to give you a lower price?

..... lets see

.....thinking thinking


.....umm


..... Nothing

Sorry to put a damper on your parade but I am just being honest.

Cheers Ian

[echnidna]

I agree totally with the views expressed by all of the tradesmen here.
Owner builders are usually so disorganised its difficult to get your job done without hassles.

BM is 100% right in that organisation is crucial.

If you really want to owner build, become your dear old dad's apprentice and go and work with him untill he finishes his current house. Then get him to return the favor and come and help you.

[Dan_574]

I owner built my own house last year, after a good year of research and planning I took long service leave and employed my builder old man for 17 weeks. We got in in that time except for the verandahs which were finished 6 weeks after. Im still doing alot of little things that need to be done. I could write a whole book on the subject, too much for here if you need specific questions answered pm me and Im more than happy to assist.<o></o>

Be prepared to get run around by tradesman, there are alot who say one thing and do another. The amount of blokes I rang and asked for quotes who said yeah no worries never even got back to me. It really annoys you, if you dont want to deal with owner builders then say so in the first place dont lead them on.<o></o>

The only trades I got in were the earth movers, roofers, sparkies, plumbers and plasterers to set the joins and sand. Otherwise me, my old man , wife and family helped. It was extremely hard work, tiring, I went the last 9 weeks working 10hr days straight without a rest, then had to go home and do invoices and prepare for the next stage.<o></o>

To say that it was an achievement is an understatement, I wouldnt recommend it unless you could devote yourself fully to the project. I was lucky in that I had long service leave, a carpenter dad and brother, uncle who owns a hardware store.

[ozwinner]

. It really annoys you, if you dont want to deal with owner builders then say so in the first place dont lead them on.<O></O>

.

But some ppl dont take NO for an answer.
Been there done that.

Al

[Dan_574]

Oz I wasnt talking about not taking no for an answer I sent 6 plans to local plumbers and sparkies who all said they do a quote and none got back to me. They were more than willing on the phone talking about it but when it came to the crunch they were really un professional.

[ian]

Bin J
I'm a bit surprised that only one reply mentions the issue of home warranty insurance.
It's my understanding (from reading articles in the Fin') that one of the current driving forces behind being an owner builder is that if an owner-builder engages a builder, the builder doesn't need to take out home warranty insurance (which, again according to the Fin, is very much an insurance company rort in NSW and Victoria)
I also understand that the home warranty requirements vary from state to state.

ian

[ozwinner]

Oz I wasnt talking about not taking no for an answer I sent 6 plans to local plumbers and sparkies who all said they do a quote and none got back to me. They were more than willing on the phone talking about it but when it came to the crunch they were really un professional.

Ok I can answer 6 and 8.

6. I dont like to work for owner builders mainly because they cause me to lose money from their inability to get things done when they are suppose to be done.
Hence, if I HAVE TO work for an owner builder I useualy charge at least twice the going rate.


Al

I think No 6. is your answer.
When tradies find out you are an owner builder, no matter how nice a person you are, they aint going to do your work..

Sorry, but thats the way it is.

Al

[Cliff Rogers]

OK Ms. J, now that these blokes have takled you out of being an OB, you need to find a B you can trust.... This is going to take some homework too 'cos there's some bottom dwellers out there. :mad:

We got ourselves a builder to do some renos 'cos he was working up the road & 'seemed' to be doing a good job.

Long story short, it all went pear shaped & we sacked him.

What we didn't know...
1. he was a mate of the bloke up the road where he 'seemed' to be doing a good job.
2. he wouldn't do paperwork.
3. he wouldn't be nailed to a price for anything.
4. he was agro.
5. he didn't show up when he said he would.
6. he showed up when he said he wouldn't.
7. he was a grub & chucked crap all over our yard.
8. he was on loco weed.
9. he couldn't build a dog house.
10. he had a BIG problem listening to my wife or the female architect.
11. he couldn't follow plans.
12. he didn't work well with other tradesman.
13. he couldn't give instructions to delivery drivers that they could follow.

Now we are most likely classed as OBs but we are getting each bit done by someone who has been recommended by someone else in the industry IE: Painter says get a quote from this tiler & that plasterer etc.

Up here in QLD, you only need BSA insurance if the job is over a certain value & it's not worth a cracker if the builder is &/or is a crook. You also only have to do a OBs course if the job exceeds a certain value.

We might be paying a bit more & it might be taking a bit longer BUT it's getting done right this time 'cos when a new tradesman starts, we rubbish the hell out of the jerk that stuffed us around & none of them want us to do the same to them.

Just in case you are wondering, his name is Rodney & he lives on the southern end of the tablelands.... PM me if you want his phone number.

[Bin J]

Yes, they certainly have made the rethink (AGAIN :mad: ) - don't think I'll be sleeping tonight.

If you've all read my other post - click here - and read how much the builder quote was and for what . . . then do you have the same opinion - ESPECIALLY the comment "it would/could cost you more".

If I was happy to plod along with the whole project - ie. have each section for the different tradies totally completed before engaging the next tradie, would that make the tradies quotes any less.
Or what else can I do (reassure, prove myself to be reliable etc, etc) to avoid being "charged double". ie, what would I have to say / do for you tradies to give me (on behalf of all owner builders ) a fair go?
What would make you go "Yeah okay, I'll do it for you, same deal as a builder".

Keep in mind, I live in a smallish town and probably know / know of at least one tradie of most types.

[namtrak]

What have you lot been smoking? Pancakes?

Being an ownerbuilder can create great savings and there are many subbies who will work with you. That's what my experience has been for the last six months anyway.

I think there is an assumption by the tradies here, that you have an IQ bordering on idiot savant. However assuming you can string some commonsense together then there is no drama being an owner builder.

Set up a trade account at a few suppliers nearby, plumbing supplies, general hardware, roofing, electricity etc and the trade discounts follow, regardless of your status.

Make sure you are organised. The one thing you can't do with the tradies and subbies is ummm and ahhh about what you want. Make sure you've done your homework and you are ready for the sparky, plumber, plasterer and so on when they turn up and they will look after you. All the better if you are prepared to roll your sleeves up. Don't let this lot bluff about how much tradesman actually know about stuff they are doing. Time and again I have had them roll up and ask me how this is supposed to be installed or where this is supposed to fit. They are generally just using commonsense to fit things where they are supposed to go.

As for being mucked around by Owner Builders, on the contrary my biggest delay has been every (every) subbie or tradie not turning up when they commit to turn up. But you have to be prepared to be mucked around by the tradies who all think that the building construction revolves around their own personal involvement!!

1. Is it a big hassle?

If you dont do your homework. If you dont learn your stuff it will become a very big hassle. Organisation is the key.

2. Was it / is it satisfying?

It is very satisfying. We are getting exactly what we want, with no shortcuts done exactly they way we are happy with.

3. Is it majorly stressful

Not really, apart from finances

4. Were you working a 'normal' job while you were owner building?

No, I have been running my own landscaping business so I have my own hours. I am not sure I could do it whilst working a nine to five job.

5. Is there things you "cringe" about that you wish you'd got a builder to do?

Finishing the plastering. Having said that I will persevere as I am improving

6. How do tradesmen interact with owner builders (especially women!) ie. are they condesceding, are the more than willing to help, do they take you for a ride?

If they are condescending then get rid of em. Most of the mob I've had through here are excellent. Happy to give advice, have a cuppa and tell me why the Pies will never win another grand final.

7. How ascertive do I need to be?

It can be bit of a negotiated compromise, generally I take the position that the tradie knows what they are talking about and I will settle for their suggestion, however if it is something I fell strongly about then its my way or the hallway.

8. Who are the best people to get free advice from?

This forum. Mates at the pub. Neighbours. The question should been who are the best people to get GOOD free advice from? And well you have to make that judgement, just because they sound like they know what they are saying doesn't necessarily make it so...

Cheers

More power to the owner builder!!!!

[Auspiciousdna]

I believe anyone can be an owner builders, it's not rocket science, especially if you get tradies in to help out.
And if you where going to be do reno's for profit I'd say go for it, because after three or four you would know enough to make more informed decisions on what kind of finish you're after in your own home.
The only thing I can see wrong with do this for the first time on your own home is, was the first cake you baked as good as your last? (do you want to be learning as you go on your own place? it’s always better to be able you sell your mistakes.)

[Dan_574]

Im sorry if it sounded like I was trying to talk you out of it, I certainly wasnt just be prepared for ALOT of hard work and that it isnt going to be easy, prepare and research unfortunately you will come across tradies like ozwinner, who will not want to work with you and who will rip you off, sorry oz but its people like you that give other tradies a bad name. I found tradies who were prepared to listen and done a good job and didnt treat me like an idiot. Give it a go by all means but be prepared for alot of sleepless nights and hard work, like I said if you want to ask questions about anything give me a buzz.
I agree with what namtrac has said relating to each of your points. There is no way I could have afforded the house Im in if I didnt do it myself.It is really satisfying, the biggest problem was getting the bank to approve the money but once that was done it went pretty much to plan. The only real trouble I had was the roofer that I had lined up didnt show when planned, wouldnt answer my calls, nothing, this was after getting a quote from him and me agreeing, materials ordered, day confirmed and he just disappeared so I had to get another roofer at last minute notice, luckily it all worked out. Otherwise go for it.

[old_picker]

expect to read a lot
expect to learn many interesting new things
expect not to save money
expect a quality build
expect it not to ever be finished
expect hassles & many many headaches
expect a unique home
expect a fantasically positive feeling when you finally move in
expect it to change your life
expect it to be the biggest thing in your life for 5 years at least
expect the blokes to laugh at you if you are a girl

if you are cool with all this do it

but hey i know quite a few girls who built really cool houses as owner builders.

and btw you dont have know that much.....i built 2 aob projects and i had never even built a rough shed.....most builders hate owner builders as a breed so dont expect help from them. As an owner builder you are it and on your own. The buck stops with you. Once you realise that you can move ahead.
good luck and my advice is to do it as it will be one of the most satisfying projects you will ever do. Keep visualising yourself sitting in a nice chair beside your fire eating a big bowl of soup in the housre you built.