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6th July 2014, 04:53 PM #16GOLD MEMBER
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How are you fixing your trusses to your columns? If by a bolted joint, then you would need to deduct 2X10mm plates at each connection unless your column plates are going to be set either side of the column which is less common. Your apex joint will also require a full 10mm deduction per truss as each truss will have a 10mm bolt plate. How does your center column attach to the truss?
Are you going to be constructing this shed from proper drawings or sketches? Generally proper drawings will have all the relevant information along with purlin and girt cleat spacings. The more information on the drawing, the less guess work and the faster the whole shed progresses.
If you aren't going to have proper drawings, then that's okay, provided your council doesn't object, but some more detail as regards connections and specs would be nice.
One note, don't paint the faces of the plates where they meet. You actually want rust to occur in this area as it strengthens the connection.
How are you planning to erect the portals and fix them to the slab?
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6th July 2014, 07:36 PM #17Philomath in training
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To add to Karl's comments on personal safety, please practice and test your welds before doing anything that will be remotely weight bearing or structural (The council approval may even depend on welds being done to AS 15xx, the structural steel welding standard, in which case you need to be able to prove that it meets that standard, who ever has done it).
This is not aimed at you personally but I always get worried when I read a post where someone announces that they are buying a welder and plan to make a shed/ trailer/ camper/ buggy and that at the end of it their welds should be pretty good. I'd hope that their welds were pretty good to start with.
Once upon a time I used to think that welding was easy and it did not take much skill to produce a decent weld. Experience has changed this view (the hard way), so please be careful. I've been fortunate enough to work with some gun welders who leave you asking yourself "how the hell did they do that" - it is a skill and requires practice.
Michael
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6th July 2014, 07:59 PM #18Novice
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- May 2009
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- Hobart, TAS
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Don't worry guys - all due care will be taken
I'm lucky enough to have an old man who's a welder of 40 years (I've been getting him to critique my welds) and a sister who is a draftsperson, so all sketches are going into CAD before they're final.
I wouldn't say I'm a complete welding novice, I've had some experience. No doubt this is the biggest project I've set out on though!
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6th July 2014, 10:03 PM #19Novice
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- Brisbane
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Bart,
I endorse Karl's comments regarding safety regs, council documentation expectations and council plans approval; particularly for structural steel buildings of this size and wind loads.
Likewise regarding structural welding for buildings. Its great you have a father involved who is an experienced structural welder. There is nothing more dangerous in structural steelwork than pourous welds! The Warren Truss pattern you are using is utterly dependant on sound non-pourous welds at every connection.
Best wishes,
David
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6th July 2014, 10:14 PM #20Novice
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- May 2009
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- Hobart, TAS
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Luckily enough, the shed doesn't need to have council planning approval, because of the area I live in and it being an 'agricultural' building.
So it'll have building / engineering approval with all the relevant inspections.
Heres the first truss half done, minus end plates!
while it was all done and correct, I screwed down about 40 plywood blocks to form a jig for the next 7!
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7th July 2014, 12:13 AM #21
please be aware that there's a world of difference between not requiring council approvals -- which around where I live is related to which neighbours you need to talk to, the fee charged by council and if the building will be lived in, with only a faint link to the critical question for a shed which is: will the building collapse in high winds or when I'm pulling the motor out of the 'cruiser the result of which might be the shed owner is hurt or what is in the shed is destroyed.
Heres the first truss half done, minus end plates!
while it was all done and correct, I screwed down about 40 plywood blocks to form a jig for the next 7!regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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7th July 2014, 10:30 AM #22GOLD MEMBER
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All very valid points.
If you line this shed with internal wall cladding etc. it will definitely change its status as an agricultural building. Your engineer will be putting their name to these plans presumably and will want to cover their tail so to speak.
Can't really offer comment on the truss or welding as the photograph really show little detail when taken from that angle. Straight on is much better from a detail perspective.
I must say that beginning construction before you have drawings is somewhat unusual.
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7th July 2014, 10:41 AM #23SENIOR MEMBER
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7th July 2014, 10:46 AM #24SENIOR MEMBER
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I think people are missing this point. Before commencing construction, he'll have to appoint a private certifier or council inspector, and they'll have a schedule of inspections they want to perform, and they'll start by looking at the plans for the structure and determine the class of building, and will want to see stamped engineering drawings.
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7th July 2014, 12:34 PM #25Novice
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Rusty Arc, read closer, he is building "an Agricultural shed" on a "farm" in Tasmania, not in a Residential, or Semi-rural area.
However, a closer look at the local council's definition of an "agricultural shed" may be a good idea; as regards the deviation from the definition of an "agricultura shed", "hay shed", or "farm machinery shed".
I grew up on a farm in NSW, before farmers had to ask permission to build any structures - other than their house!
I don't profess to know the current building regs for Tasmainia. But having been through the whole process of building my workshop on acreage - outside the greater Brisbane area, the above should be done now; if not already clarified with the council.
This should include clarification of the ultimate building details & its purpose. The process also impacts on building insurance and public liability insurance - even on farms.
David
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7th July 2014, 01:24 PM #26SENIOR MEMBER
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I imagine he has checked out what the story is with the council, and from the sound of it, believes it to be an exempt development (doesn't require a DA). However, while a structure may have development approval exemption, it'll almost always require building approval (it's only things like decks or pergolas of a certain size or height that are typically exempt from BA).
He's mentioned he'll be getting the required inspections done, and as I've said, the first thing the inspector will do is determine the class of the building and confirm whether it indeed requires a DA or not.
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7th July 2014, 01:57 PM #27Novice
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- May 2009
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- Hobart, TAS
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To put the speculation at ease:
I went to council expecting to have to complete full planning / building approvals, but was pleasantly surprised when I was told I wouldn't have to go through planning approval (because of the horse stables), providing my boundary setbacks were correct (which they are, just!).
I still have to go through the complete building / engineering and approval / inspection process.
I touched based with my engineer this morning and he's going to take a look at some samples welds, but also put my mind at ease that the truss isn't working very hard with this setup (he's deliberately over-engineered it all). Retaining the centre column really helps the structure.
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7th July 2014, 02:36 PM #28Novice
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Hello Bart,
That's as I interpreted your previous comments. (You had set your mind at rest as regards Council requirements and were proceeding with an engineer to provide the necessary drawings & approvals.)
My last post was more to clarify what had not been said, that others may have misunderstood. Seems you have ticked the required investigation boxes & have the necessary Engineer involvement.
Being a retired Engineer myself (of a different discipline), there is nothing wrong with some "conservative structural design".
Problem is today, the so-called "tin shed" (Cold Formed Steel Shed) Industry, has plenty of shonks involved.
BTW the Innesfail Cyclone was a big wake-up call, if you read that report most of the "tin sheds'" in exposed areas, departed their slabs leaving little more than the anchoring bolts. The report has led to quite a few regulation changes in Queensland.
There is good evidence that some shed engineers quoted the Tek screwed cladding as the structural bracing!
That said I know of many well-built Cold Formed Steel sheds, that are well secured & independantly well braced.
I am familiar with a Forensic Structural Engieer who had a "field day" with poorly designed, poorly documented
"tin sheds", that failed in severe weather events; including the one mentioned.
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7th July 2014, 08:24 PM #29GOLD MEMBER
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7th July 2014, 08:43 PM #30SENIOR MEMBER
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Your questions seemed rather odd if you had looked at the drawings, as the two detail drawings show the connection specs for the peak and column ends, i.e. 75x8mm plate with 3 x N12 bolts or welded at the peak, and 75x8mm plate welded to the columns.
Admittedly, I can't quite make out how the centre column is connected to the peak of the trusses.
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