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25th February 2014, 03:52 PM #16
They still are everywhere and cheap aren't they Ian ? at the tool sales any way maybe ? In shops they have always been to expensive and never the right type . Are they getting more expensive on ebay ? I haven't noticed . the cabinet type are harder to pick up than the joiners ones . I would like to see in detail how many working joiners there were in 1880 compared to cabinet makers in any of our city's .
I bought many over the years . if they do go up much , I will be happy . my dearest will be even happier , she will be the one selling them
I remember seeing a set of Cabinet pitch hollows and rounds selling at a tools sale a few years ago , it wasn't a complete set , plenty missing , a rare sight though. I agree that the 66 is a good one to have . I do have one but I do go for the wooden one first probably just because I like using a user made that I did myself first.
Rob
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25th February 2014, 07:33 PM #17
'Tis!
I read about it in one of the very early FWWs, and thought it sounded too simple to be real...
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's two: Screw scratch1.jpg Screw scratch2.jpg
I remembered reading about it some years later, when I wanted to put a bit of subtle decoration on the edge of an otherwise fairly plain Silky Oak door, so I used the very sophisticated bit of gear shown above. Worked like a charm:
Door edge.jpg
Cheers,IW
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25th February 2014, 07:55 PM #18
I guess they are still relatively cheap, Rob, but I'm talking about the early 80s when you could buy half a dozen in pretty good nick for 10 bucks. I lost interest in moulding planes after a while, partly because I was not very proficient at regrinding the blades (which often looked like they'd been got at by metal-gnawing rats! ), and partly because, as an amateur, I never need much of the one type of moulding. So I get by well enough with scratch stocks for smaller profiles, and for larger things like crown mouldings, I use coving cuts on the tablesaw, & finish the convex curves & rebated cuts with planes. I wouldn't to try do it that way if I were trying to earn my living at it, though!
I confess to acertain amountlot of ignorance when it comes to moulding planes. The few that I've kept include a couple that were clearly house-wrights' tools. One does a lovely quirked ogee, that just happened to match the skirting boards of an old house I once lived in - came in mighty handy when we added an extension! In another thread, perhaps, so we don't hijack this one, maybe you could expound on the difference between joiners' & cabinetmakers' moulding planes?
Cheers,IW
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25th February 2014, 07:56 PM #19Jim
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Victoria
- Posts
- 2,144
thanks Ian. So simple and so effective - a tool sellers nightmare
Cheers,
Jim
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25th February 2014, 08:17 PM #20
Jim, there are, as you know, lots of low, or no-cost ways of doing things that manufacturers want to convince us needs an expensive, special tool. I think it reached a peak back in the late 1800s. Just take the Stanley 55 for example. They make your eyes water when you first behold one, they are a grown-ups Meccano set on steroids! But I've heard quite a few cynics say that the reason they are so often found intact & in their original box is because very few users could actually make the damned things work (which I'm inclined to believe, knowing just how persnickety a simple plough plane can be when it chooses!). A simple 66 probably does most of what the average cabinetmaker ever needed, more efficiently, for a fraction of the cost.
For someone like me, who has the time to play about & figure out how to make things, it's satisfying & great fun finding home-made solutions, but as I said, I would have a very different mind-set if my next meal depended on getting products out the door & paid for...
Cheers,IW
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26th February 2014, 10:09 AM #21
I too heard that the old 55's don't work too well but unless I have it in my hand and give it a whirl I reserve to make judgement.
My ideal moulding plane would have to have a skewed blade which kind of seems impossible but tool makers could possibly work something out. I would also like to have an adjustment wheel rather than the wedge this way you could make fine adjustments without the constant backwards and forwards. The biggest issue I find with them are moulding the ends, for edge work they are great but what if you want to mould the two ends of a single board, your basically struggling with it and tear out is inevitable.
Then comes the costs involved a full set of 18 hollows and rounds only a year ago was about $250 now they have crept up to $345 because more and more people coming back to the unplugged world. Making them who wouldn't love to make them but simply just can't and paying someone else too will cost a couple of grand so its a no win situation. Still the idea of a single plane like the 45 or 55 with various cutters seem to be a good alternative but if what they say is true then your out of pocket $400 with a useless tool.
on a different note I bought last night from tool exchange Irwin Auger bits all 13 in a set for $150 and free postage. I know there's nothing free in this world so I gathered $110 for the bits and $40 for postage still considering jimbode in the U.S. Selling the same for $125 but postage started off at $60 and I ended up working him down to $50 but with the conversion rate and all it would of end up costing me $185. So I saved $35 not a huge saving but every dollar counts.
the problem we Aussies face is un availability due to being on the a holes end of the world, being so far from the rest of the world that matters leaves us in a very vulnerable position. This is where we fall prey to overseas markets and in this instance antique dealers. Now Huns brummer I think his name is has fantastic tools I've seen in his catalogue and comparing him to other Aussie dealers I've seen online probably the best out there and he's not expensive but you always have to wait for his auctions and the email bids aren't ideal either. It would be nice to see him selling online and others to get into the game and equal ourselves to the US competitors I know I would prefer to buy from here than to send my money overseas.
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26th February 2014, 10:59 AM #22
(Some) moulding planes do come with skewed irons ... just looking at the setting out wrinkles my brow, let alone the actual woodwork to make it.
I still can't 100% picture the desired profile here ...
3/4" stock,
1/8" "gap"
x diameter of bead (180o? 270o?)
and
(3/4 - 1/8 - x) left over on the other side?
Thanks,
Paul
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26th February 2014, 12:26 PM #23Jim
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Victoria
- Posts
- 2,144
IanW, it was an old school cabinet maker I saw use the method. Time was money to him and he said this was the quickest for the job. Otherwise, he would have made up a suitable scratch stock.
Cheers,
Jim
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26th February 2014, 12:59 PM #24
Im the same for the one type of moulding Ian , I tend to cut them on an inverted router then tune them in to what I want with a round or hollow. Or table saw then the same.
One thing I never like to do is let the router bit company's determine what I will be doing for a moulding . I draw and design by looking at the old , and then make what I need . Every time it's a different moulding. Its nice to know if the power were cut off , I could continue to work . but I rarely try for 100% the old way,
Another thread would be good to do . A start about what I have learned so far and then added to by whoever is in to it .
Rob
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27th February 2014, 09:42 AM #25
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27th February 2014, 02:25 PM #26SENIOR MEMBER
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- Sydney
- Age
- 79
- Posts
- 593
You will find Hans on eBay at http://stores.ebay.com.au/hansbrunnertools, interestingly there was a note (seems not to be there anymore) on Hans' website suggesting that Tool Exchange was getting tools from Jim Bode, who in turn was getting them from John Sindelar, see http://www.sindelartoolmuseum.com/, I have visited the museum - unbelievable, and only a small part of the collection is on display; I believe the museum is closing as John is moving his factory (in which is the museum). John is also a big trader http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wo...#comment-71824.
Worthwhile dropping Hans an email request if you after something specific.
Cheers
Peter, looking at the tiny collection of around 33 moulding planes in a bookcase as I write, only a few have been actually used!
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27th February 2014, 02:51 PM #27
Thanks for that useful link I've never seen such beauty before.
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24th June 2014, 02:45 PM #28Novice
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Regina, SK Canada
- Posts
- 11
WRC Single Reed
If you are concerned about fuzzy results, searching for a Cabinet Pitch Reed Plane might be the answer. On these planes, the iron is set at a steep angle of about 55 or 60 degrees. They were used to tame wild grain, so I'm thinking that might work on Western Red Cedar. Finding a cabinet pitch centre bead or single reed is not likely to be easy, but I did see a cabinet pitch triple reed on Ebay not long ago.
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24th June 2014, 04:29 PM #29
I ended up buying a 1/8" beading plane and the results were nice but then I tried something else I used a screw which was screwed into a block of timber made a kerf then used back saw to deepen the kerf then I used a no.4 smoother to establish a round over and finished it off with sandpaper, the results were outstandiing much better than a dedicated beading plane could give me. A waste of $70.