Should I Stay or Should I go

[DanP]

Carefully consider the work that goes in to keeping up with 5, 10, 15 etc acres of land. No good having a huge shed if all you have time for is mowing/gardening etc. IMO 2 acres is a maximum if you are not going to use the land for some sort of crop or herd.

On the other hand, 5 acres would lend itself nicely to three or four head of cattle or a dozen sheep, a few chooks a decent vegie patch and as big a shed as you could possibly want. The cattle/sheep would pay for themselves and keep your freezer full. Good fresh eggs and vegies...yum.

Dan

[Rocker]

SilentC,

I don't know whether you have considered moving interstate; but it sounds to me as though you want a place pretty similar to mine, but maybe with a somewhat larger house. You have seen my place, and I believe it is only worth about $450,000, so if you bought something similar up here you could do it comfortably, without having the hassle of building it yourself. However, maybe family ties would rule this out.

It might pay to wait a few months until thoughts of tsunamis have faded from peoples' consciousness before you try selling a house on the sea shore.

Rocker

[outback]

Well YOU asked what we'd do.



As to redevelopment, that, is probably inevitable, the timing is the question. You need to ask yourself, and your family are they ready to move on and open a new chapter. That is the real question.
For the how question. Ask yourself how much risk you wish to carry. Redeveloping the property yourself has the highest potential gains, along with the highest risk.

Whatever you do don't buy "acres" with the thought of making money or any sheeps, cows, horses, goats or pigses, will be self sustaining, or cover any of their expenses. They will be a drain on resources, look at them as pets, probably expensive ones. There ain't no way SWMBO will let you place any of them in the freezer without you going to keep them company.
If I owned a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house with a 2 bed self-contained flat on a double-sized block with 180 deg ocean views and 400m from the beach. It has a small garage and a 'workshop' carved out underneath. It's conservatively valued at $580,000 although we might get 620 or more. There is no mortgage on it. It's been the family home for nearly 30 years, I'd be pretty apprehensive in letting it go.

I'd renovate, expand into the neighbours, underground, or upward. That view ensures a healthy capital gain, and a healthy way to get things into perspective when things get out of control.

[Sturdee]

Darren,

Can you afford to move and rebuild ?

The best scenario would be Sale price $ 600k less Purchase new land $230k, Legals etc $ 50k, Storage furniture /accomodation $ 20k , leaving $ 300k available for building your dream home, parents unit shed etc.

However it may well be that you don't realise the sale price and that you spend more on accommodation whilst building so that you may have only about $ 250k available.

Also whilst the kids may have room to run around you will have to drive them to everything for a long time ( no more shed time ).

Personally I think you might be better of renovating and rent say some space on a farm for a few storage sheds to store and dry timber.


Peter.

[craigb]

Actually, regardless of my previous post, I agree with Outback and Sturdee.

It seems like you are in a pretty good situation already and as Dan pointed out, do you really want to have 10 acres of fields to look after?

Besides, your current place will appreciate faster than a bush block in the next round of property price increases even if the market has gone off the boil at the moment.

C'mon admit it, you only want the bush place so you can have a forge.

[fxst]

C'mon admit it, you only want the bush place so you can have a forge.

and what is wrong with that scenario :confused: :confused:

[RETIRED]

I only have one question Darren.

Are you happy there? If so why go through all the hassles.

[John Saxton]

Exactly what said,IF'N you're basically happy where you are then why put yourself,your immediate family and your parents thru changes unless they're also becoming unhappy with their lot there?

IF all it is,is a few basic changes & requirements to the existing property with a minimal outlay then surely for you it must be beneficial financially.

I have a similar situation approaching retirement do I move to a property we have in Queensland with a larger area for a woodworking environment,but with the cost involved in moving is it better to stay here in W.A and make the necessary changes and adapt which would most likely be financially better off?

SC, for what its worth and I dont know whether you have approached all your family but their views will help in a collected decision with all the parameters involved and the costs not only financially, but with possibly onerous mental upheaval from their comfort zone.
One real estate agent recently told me that views are paramount in retailing property and it seems to me that your situation is almost idyllic apart from the required $$$$ and in time it may be a judicious decision on your part to stay where you are and make the necessary adjustments to accommodate your lifestyle.

Sorry for rambling on ..just my 2C worth
Cheers and good luck

[Cliff Rogers]

... Be careful when looking at blocks, try and restrict yourself to Real Estate windows and newspapers. If you eyeball the ideal site at the right price you may be tempted to jump in ...

Good advice H, that's just what the investment property lady on the ABC radio said tonight.

What Dan & others say about not going too big is good too, we have 10 Acres in the hills & about 5 of them need to be mowed every 2nd day at present. We are going flat out to turn at least another 3 back into rainforest so we don't have to mow it.

Also, beware the trap of animals..... you will have problems ever going on another holiday again. My Mum & Dad live out in the bush behind Longreach. They have about 33,000 acres, somewhere between 2,000 & 4,000 sheep & a couple a hundred cattle & they can't go anywhere when it's a drought & they can't go anywhere when there's a flood & when the weather is good, they can't go anywhere 'cos the can't get anyone to look after the cat, 8 dogs, 3 geese, 9 ducks, 15 chooks & 3 acres of garden. :mad:

I'd be thinking hard about what John, , Outback, Simon & Sturdee have said.

The investment lady says, if you have equity in a good property & an income to service the debt, borrow againtst the one you already own.
The cruncher is, you have to be able to service the debt.
Whether you borrow to improve your capital gain on your existing property or borrow to buy an investment property is up to you.
If you can't service the debt & you are selling just to buy elsewhere, you are going backwards.

Fark... how do you sleep at night with all this stuff whirling in your head? :confused:

[vsquizz]

Friends down the road have five kids and a similar situation. They rounded up the kids and laid out the options. After the kids had thought about it for a few days they all said they would rather stay put. (and live through Squizzy knocking down walls, gutting the kitchen and adding more bedrooms ).

Kids can be very perceptive if they have a balanced approach. My kids get down to my brothers farm on occaision and I'd say that acres is for myself and the eldest daughter. SWMBO and the lad like it but prefer the 1/4 acre & 3 x 2 in the burbs.

Friends were pleasantly surprised when the kids wanted to stay in the current house having already resigned themselves to the nausea of moving/buying/selling etc.
It just depends what you really want and it aint really about the money.

Cheers

[silentC]

OK, thanks for the feedback everyone. I found my self swinging like a pendulum as I read each post. Some things I hadn't thought of, some I had.

We're all basically happy where we live now. In fact there are very few cons. The house is run down but it can be fixed up. It's comfortable inside, very tired looking outside. It needs a new kitchen and bathroom etc. etc.

I think most people would think we're mad for even thinking about moving. Although I think a lot of people might change their minds if they lived here during the christmas holiday period. The constant stream of traffic and people and the way they assume that because they're on holiday no one else matters. They don't seem to realise that people actually live here and most of us aren't here to serve them.

Good point about the tsunami, Rocker. We reckon we would have been OK if that wave hit here because we're actually quite high up behind the cliffs. Would have been carnage down on the flat though. We look down over a caravan park and it was full of people on Boxing Day.

Yes Craig, I want to build a forge I'd like room for a bigger shed and more storage. I'm tired of moving things from one pile to another in a never ending attempt to get some sort of order happening (yes I know, all of you with big sheds still find yourself doing that).

My wife likes the idea of more room for the kids. They can't even ride their bikes where we are now because the bloke slopes about 1 in 3. She likes the idea of being able to make a practice chipping/putting green and being able to smack a few balls into the back paddock.

My dad is 'off the land' and likes the idea of farting around on a few acres. Mum would be happy to stay but will go with the flow.

HH, I am a bit impulsive. If I sit on this for a few weeks, chances are it will evaporate. It's just that we have a lot of work planned this year on the house and I want to be absolutely sure we're going to stay there for at least the next 10 years before we spend any money. It's sort of a now or never thing.

Oh well, we're going to look at some land today to get an idea of what we could get. I'll keep all the comments in mind about upkeep, animals etc. Bush blocks are common here, so there wouldn't necessarily be any grass to mow. Just lots of trees. Woolybutts, Ironbarks, Turpentine etc. See where I'm going?

Thanks again.

[numbat]

Darren,

A couple of more things for you to consider.

1. I am sure those in NSW (and ACT) are aware of the Bob Carr land taxes where those on the coast and in Sydney - who might have bought a nothing block but with harbour views 40 years ago and have lived there ever since suddenly had to sell because they were millionaires (according to Bob anyway) as they could not afford the huge hike in land taxes. I think that this kind of tax is likely to affect your property evantually.

2. Is your block a development site in waiting? - what I mean by that is will you be eventually surrounded by high rise or other undesirable neighbours in 5, 10, 15 years and will the road in front of your house be a 4 lane superhighway? What are the development policies of your local council currently and into the future when new peopls move in and perhaps change the priorities of the council - in favour or violently against development? Also remember the current trend in NSW (thanks Bob) of amalgamating councils (forcibly) and sacking councils - (he should devote his energies to fixing the trains and electricity supply). Also think of the current city centres in Australia - at one time these had residential houses there - now all high rises - is this likely to happen to a differing extent where you are?

I envy your location but not your current dilemma.

Cheers

[silentC]

Good point on the land tax, numbat. The local council has been pro-development. We have so many sea changers and baby boomers coming here, they have no choice. Rates in my street are second highest in the shire. This year they were $2600 plus about $80 per quarter water usage charge. Land tax on top of that would be a killer.

We had a look at some vacant lots this morning. Prices range from $190-$200 thousand. All negotiable of course. If we could build a house and shed for, say $300,000, we should have money in the bank after the move.

All of the blocks were good. All around 2-2.5 acres. Some bush, some cleared. All have views over the valley and the town. No town water Underground power and phone . Rates about $600 per year .

Decisions, decisions.... :confused:

[craigb]

If we could build a house and shed for, say $300,000, we should have money in the bank after the move.

Well assuming building costs of $1400/sq metre (obviously much cheaper if you're doing it yourself) you'll get a 180sq m house for $250,000.

Seem like a fair size house ?

[silentC]

I don't know. I'll have to do a floor plan in Chief Architect and see what it comes up with. They quote $1000/sq metre down here. If we couldn't build something decent for that money, there's something wrong. And a bloody great big shed!! Oh, and a putting green (yes dear).