New house wiring

[seriph1]

anyone else forgotten the topic?

[jackiew]

anyone else forgotten the topic?

I think the question started from whether a mistake in a job specification (electrical work) could or should have been highlighted by the person doing the job - which then morphed into what happens if your customer doesn't pay you, which then resulted in reflections on what legal ( or illegal ) action you can take to get redress for non payment.

I have to say that my opinion of the law tends to depend on whether it is working to my benefit or not ... all to frequently these days I see the law ( as in the legal system rather than those who enforce it) as being an ass. Which is a bit worrying as one would hope that as one gets older that the laws would seem to make more sense. Instead everyday I seem to come face to face with rules and regulations which seem to have been created for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many. sigh

[Landseka]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is not too difficult for a creditor to put a caveat on a persons property for (among other things) non payment of debts.

While the caveat is in place the property owner cannot sell the property or otherwise dispose of it without the caveat being removed which can only be done with the consent of the "caveator". Of course this would not be done until the debt had been paid.

Regards
Neil.

[Sturdee]

True, provided that a number of conditions are met.

Firstly the title must be in the same name as your nonpayer. Often the title is in joint names whilst your dispute is with only one of them. The other party (usually either the husband or wife) will object claiming the agreement or contract was done without his knowledge or consent. Typical answer is that our marriage is not solid and we were having a row.

Secondly it must actually be for non payment not a disputed claim. If a defence is claimed of either unsatisfactory work or incorrect charged amount the caveat will be removed by the Titles Office at the Caveators expense.

Regretfully the people I've worked for has been there, done that, and had it removed by the other party and had to pay damages for injury to his reputation as well. Cost my boss big, big bikkies.

Peter.

[HavinaGo]

Hi all, Im really annoyed at the moment I dont know with who myself or the elctrician I got to do my new house. Im an owner builder who started in Feb and we moved in in July. I got an electrician to do the house, all passed all legal. I got an air con put in today 2.5hp split system. The sparkie who put it in said we are right on the limit of amps available for the size of the mains(16mm), I think we have about 3amps left. He said that he advises people in my area(semi rural) who are on an acre or more with a fair sized house and no natural gas to run two 16mm mains so they can add things later on. .... Can anyone tell me how I calculate the total amps on the house.

Hi Dan,

My suspicion is your sparky has done a "Maximum Demand" calculation. The number he/she came up with should be on the certificate of electrical safety you received with the AC installation ... should make sense with the initial numbers when power was connected ...

In answer to your specific question:

Now, not being a sparky and being denied access to the latest AS3000 and associated guide standard without parting with heaps of money :mad:, all I can provide is the general principle of the calculation. It changes subtly with each revision of the standard. Further, the exact method of calculation depends on the type of installation you have.

It is a calculation that adds up the loads in an installation factoring in the likelyhood they will be used at a point in time, to arrive at a theoretical current consumption the installation will not exceed. Cables can then be sized to meet that demand. (Cable sizing is another issue that is not as obvious as it might seems ... we'll look at that next)

To get some idea, count the number of power points you have, 10 amps for the first 20 points, plus 5 amps for each additional 20 or part there of. Thus if you have 30 points, the Max demand calculation says that load contributes 15Amps to the Max usage of the residence.

Add 3Amps for up to 20 lights (in our example +3 to give 18Amps)

Lets say you have a 15Amp power point in the shed .. that gets counted separately and is worth 10A (in the example +10 -> 28Amps)

Stove (include 50% of connected load) (lets say a stove is 10kW, and as there are approx 4amps per kW -> 40Amp * 50% -> +20Amp to Max demand .. so we are now 48Amp)

Hot Water (off peak only, 33% connected load)(lets guess 4kW -> 16Amps *33% -> +6Amp to Max Demand ... now 54Amp)

A/C ... lets say 2.5HP is 2 kW -> 8amps .. the old standard says add half ie 4Amps to Max demand but the new one?? .. lets say we are now up to 58Aamp.

Making judgements is the name of the game as is knowing the latest guidelines ... then just add all the numbers up to get a Max demand number .....

Cable sizing:
Carrying capacity of a cable can be current limited (ie how hot the cable will get) or voltage limited (ie will the volts drop be too much when a current is drawn via the cable .... this used to be set at 5% total over the whole installation ie 12V for a single phase installation .. including the wires in the house)
16mm sq, direct burried single phase with HRC fuses .. current limit used to be 100Amp.
given the volt drop is 2.8mV/Am, anything over 40 meters at the 100Amp load will be voltage limited.

Not sure if this helps .. other than to say the calculation is a statistical attempt to get cable sizes right to prevent problems.

Rookie's comment wakes vague memories that an alternate to the Max demand calculation exists .. but the details elude me.

Anyone??

[echnidna]

That was extremely helpful Havinago, very glad to have you aboard. I expect with your extraordinary grasp of hitech crap that you are just the person to answer the questions that have been perplexing so many of of on this forum.

1. How do you tell the front of a foil hat.
2. Does red foil work better than silver foil.

[ozwinner]

Hats off, foil ones of course, to echnidna

Al

[bitingmidge]

Hey do you guys have trouble with arcing between your foil hat and the fillings in your back teeth when you are checking stuff in the microwave??

:eek: :eek: :eek:

P

[ozwinner]

The microwave!! of course, I should have guessed.

BTW Midge........Rain........say no more.

Al

[Dan_574]

Thanks Havinago, I got lost at maximum demand, I will read it again carefully and see how I go. Thanks again

[HavinaGo]

Your welcome Dan, probably easiest to talk it through with your local sparky to find the assumptions that were made behind the "3amps left" statement

Echnidna ... Yes I did get carried away. Oh well. Some days I can't resist. As to your questions .. I have not got the fogyist! How do you tell? (ps my grasp of spelling is a weakness so please cope with the creative efforts )

The sparks concepts from a microwave could be an interesting short term experiment .. I just can't fit the hat in??

Now back to ... kids bed time

see ya

David

[soundman]

Ahh peak demand ( read black magic ).

How much more can I connect in excess than the rated incomming mains???

As said before there are peak demand "guidlines" set out in the AS but they are open to interpretation, so you need to ask the question of how those figures wer derived and what asumptions were made.

From there you can consider your position.

one option not often considered in domestic housing is load shedding.
ie making sure certain high demabd items can not be used at the same time.
eg the sauna and the hot water system
the hotwater system is connected to an off peak tarif and operates between 10pm and 6am a contactor is installed so the sauna will not operate during that time.
load shed, peak demand reduced.
A sparky friend of mine load shed his laundry power against his hot water.
Some local authorities might have problems with that but its worth a try.
your HWS draws about 15 amps.