The World's Slowest Construction of a Merbau Deck/Pergola

[Yonnee]

Mate, what an awesome job! Top stuff.

I'd like to challange the "world's slowest" though. I dug and poured the footings for my deck & pergola at the same time I did my shed footings...


...that was March '04. The pergola roof went on October '07 along with the green tongue floor base, and the tiles turned up last week. Just bought the first lot of cement sheet underlay tonight, with still more to buy.

Maybe by Christmas '08...

[Blu_Rock]

Williamstown, the red/purple is the finish coat of Solarguard, Manor Red colour, that I have applied to all the treated pine timber. In real life, it's more of a reddy/brown colour.

Thanks Yonnee. I take your point, you are the man! I suppose that I named the post as I did because my mates are always asking why I haven't I finished the deck yet. They are used to tradesmen knocking up a deck in a couple of days or so.

[ComboSquare]

The rise is 180mm, the going 350mm

Your stairs look good, however the formula for stairs is twice the riser plus the going should equal between 585 - 625mm (this can vary a bit, i've seen 600-625), your numbers = 710?

[Blu_Rock]

ComboSquare, yes my stairs do not conform to the formula (I was aware of this during construction) but they are comfortable to climb. The stairs on my front porch are the same dimensions and my guests and I have had no problems with them. Thanks for the comment... good to see you are paying attention

[UteMad]

Your stairs look good, however the formula for stairs is twice the riser plus the going should equal between 585 - 625mm (this can vary a bit, i've seen 600-625), your numbers = 710?

You sure on that one? 2R + G = 550 to 700

we build the deck stairs that are closed like yours with a riser of 170 - 190 and a tread of generally 4 boards (360mm ) as you have no nosing and considering they are usually quite wide with no handrail people dont slow down and miss the top step if its only 3 boards... we also go out to 5 and 6 boards if people want to use them a lot for seats

cheers utemad

[tim120977]

Hi UteMad,

I have just had my decking plans approved from the local council. Before they would approve it they wanted some additional information eg step riser heights and tread widths. Since I'm using 90mm by 19mm Merbau my riser height was going to be two boards =180mm plus 3-4mm for the spacing. Tread width 4 boards = 360mm + 10mm for spacing and top of the riser board + 19mm. = roughly 390mm. Then the council made me aware that there is max tread width of 355mm. This kinda screwed up my nice wide step idea. I know there is a min tread width of i think 260mm but i was unaware of the max limit. Has anyone else heard of this? Just after reding your last post UteMad you mentioned that you have used 6 to 8 boards for the tread. Is this using 90mm or 70mm?
Also a little bit off topic but my deck at the highest point is 650mm off the ground and i have 90mm by 90mm Merbau handrail post and wire balastrading basically just for looks. I had the wire spaced on the plan at 200mm spacings to reduce costs a little but the council have come back saying that i must have them spaced at max 100mm width and certain tensions etc. Is this accurate if the deck is not higher than 1mt???. Any information would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Tim.

You sure on that one? 2R + G = 550 to 700

we build the deck stairs that are closed like yours with a riser of 170 - 190 and a tread of generally 4 boards (360mm ) as you have no nosing and considering they are usually quite wide with no handrail people dont slow down and miss the top step if its only 3 boards... we also go out to 5 and 6 boards if people want to use them a lot for seats

cheers utemad

[Blu_Rock]

Like you, my deck is about 700mm off the ground so the hand rail is not necessary. I am considering adding 3 x S/S balustrade wires for ascetic reasons. However, because my deck size is less than a certain area (as well as a couple of other criteria), I don't need to get approval and therefore I don't know whether the wire spacing rule (in the ACT, the rule is no gaps wider than 125mm - and for wire, the deflection of adjacent wires should not be wider than 125mm?) would be called to bear. Maybe it's a case that if they are fitted, then they must conform to the spacing rule.

Also because of the deck's size, the stairs' dimensions won't be inspected, lucky me The reason that my steps are 4 boards wide is I also wanted the steps to be reasonable to sit on as well as comfortable to walk down.

I know that some specifications in different regional regulations are not the same. I'd visit your local planning authority/council and get a hold of the regulations (see them first hand) so you can check the validity of the council inspector's decision.

[ComboSquare]

You sure on that one? 2R + G = 550 to 700

we build the deck stairs that are closed like yours with a riser of 170 - 190 and a tread of generally 4 boards (360mm ) as you have no nosing and considering they are usually quite wide with no handrail people dont slow down and miss the top step if its only 3 boards... we also go out to 5 and 6 boards if people want to use them a lot for seats

cheers utemad

Interesting, I have 2 references that say twice the riser plus the going should equal between 585 - 625 mm. One reference is in 'The Australian Carpenter and Joiner' pg 541:
Riser = 115 min, 190 max
Going = 225 min, 395 max
2R + G = 585 min, 625 max

This is for external timber stairs.

[Robo]

Your hand rail is made out of two pieces of wood. I've just made one around a balcony that has one piece of 95x45 like your top rail. Wide side of the wood sits horizontal, and is butted into the posts. In the longest section (about 2.5 m) there is a bit of flex. I'm worried that someone big might lean on it or worse still sit on it and it could break or pull away from the post. Do you think if I screwed another piece on its side underneath it would give it much strength? I don't think I'd be able to cut anything out of the post like I did for the rails now. So the new piece would be maybe 70 x 45 treated pine with 100mm gal bugle head screws into the bottom of the existing rail every 400mm or so.

One more thing, I painted the treated pine with an acrylic exterior low gloss finish that wasn't supposed to need any primer. Now the pine has cracked, particularly the tops of the posts. I thought of putting builders bog in the cracks and repainting it - any better ideas?

[boban]

Interesting, I have 2 references that say twice the riser plus the going should equal between 585 - 625 mm. One reference is in 'The Australian Carpenter and Joiner' pg 541:
Riser = 115 min, 190 max
Going = 225 min, 395 max
2R + G = 585 min, 625 max

This is for external timber stairs.

Now I'm confused.

2(115) + 225 = 455
2(190) + 395 = 775

I haven't referenced any material, just looking at the maths.

[Blu_Rock]

Do you think if I screwed another piece on its side underneath it would give it much strength?

Now the pine has cracked, particularly the tops of the posts. I thought of putting builders bog in the cracks and repainting it - any better ideas?

Either adding the extra piece or adding another vertical support half way along the top rail should stop the flex.

If the top is only butt joined to the sides of the posts then you have got a problem. Without a joint or suitable brackets you risk the top letting go and someone seriously injuring themselves. If this is the case, then one solution is to fix some "L" shaped brackets between the top rail and the posts with suitable gal screws. Then you can add the strengthening piece of timber and all should be OK.

Regarding the splits in the pine, that is the nature of treated pine and I am pretty sure that, to a point, you will continue to experience splitting of the ends, in particular. You can bog up the cracks and repaint but you are most likely going to have to redo this a number of times until the timber stabilises. Failing making some type of cap to protect the end grain, the bog & paint solution is the go.

[Blu_Rock]

Now I'm confused.

2(115) + 225 = 455
2(190) + 395 = 775

I haven't referenced any material, just looking at the maths.

As ComboSquare notes:
Riser = 115 min, 190 max
Going = 225 min, 395 max

2R + G = 585 min, 625 max (different to Staines .. see below)

Re-arranging the equation, with a known riser
G = 625 - 2R (in the maximum case)
G = 585 - 2R (in the minimum case)

or with a known going
R = (625 - G)/2 (in the maximum case)
R = (585 - G)/2 in the minimum case)

Therefore if you went with the minimum riser height (i.e. 115) then your maximum going would be: G = 625 - (2x115) = 395

However, according to Staines pg 38 ...

"The going plus twice the riser should equal between 550-675mm, alternatively, the sum of 1 riser plus 1 tread should equal between 430mm and 460mm. Risers should not be greater than 190mm high and treads should not be less than 250mm wide."

He continues with some further guidance. I suggest you get hold of Allan Staines' book Decks and Pergolas Construction Manual.

These numbers serve as a guide, and depending on your council's regulations, approved structures will need to conform with the specifications in your region's regulations/code.

If all this is not clear, I suggest that you start a new thread so more people can see the question, respond with their comments and maybe make it clearer.. or not ... LOL.

[namtrak]

Great thread, now that I've moved to Queanbeyan I should get you around to give me some serious design inspiration I need for a deck setup for out the back and verandah out the front!!!

Which suppliers are you using? Ive checked out Monaro, Thors Hammer, Fyshwick and the other usual suspects - I liked the homeliness of the Fyshwick Building Supplies.

[Blu_Rock]

Great thread, now that I've moved to Queanbeyan I should get you around to give me some serious design inspiration I need for a deck setup for out the back and verandah out the front!!!

Which suppliers are you using? Ive checked out Monaro, Thors Hammer, Fyshwick and the other usual suspects - I liked the homeliness of the Fyshwick Building Supplies.

Welcome Namtrak. I started this thread because I wanted to try and pull together previous advice that has been given on the Forum along with my own experiences during the deck build. I have been dabbling in timber and metal for about 40 years and and even though I am somewhat experienced, each new project throws up unknowns and gives me the opportunity to continue to learn.

For this build I have mainly used timber from AJAA but to be honest, I have found them to be a bit difficult to deal with. While the owner has been fine and obliging in exchanging merbau that was either twisted, bowed or otherwise deformed, I have found some of the staff to be a bit surly. That said, their prices are competitive and in the case of the cypress 19x90 un-fluted decking that I am using for a screen that I am presently adding to the deck, they were the only supplier who had the cypress at a reasonable price. That said, I had to take back two lengths of the cypress for exchange, one was badly split and the other had 4 strap marks that would have shown. On the way out, I got a smart a$se comment from the woman on the front counter. While I can live with that, it's not really professional.

I have also used timber and hardware from Bunnings and Magnet Mart. Their prices are generally OK and at least you can personally pick and choose your timber.

I have used Thor's in the past and they have great service and an amazing stock of recycled timber.. albeit a bit on the expensive side.

Monaro timber has made their name supplying good quality timber and also gives good, friendly advice. A little on the expensive side but you get what you pay for.

In the past, I have used Fyshwick Building Supplies but on the last couple of occasions, their prices were un-competitive.

Also, try Ern Smith in Hume. When doing my bathroom/laundry reno, they were cheaper than everyone else for the gyprock and wet area materials.

For hardware, Keeler Hardware in Fyshwick has a huge range of hinges, draw pulls, locks etc etc and can get just about any thing that is hard to find. Good service there too.

For nuts and bolts, stainless fittings and other fasteners, the best is Speciality Fasteners in Fyshwick... they are even cheaper than Bunnings on some lines, and the service is way better.

For steel, it's either Andre Herzog or Metal Mart both in Fyshwick.

For plumbing, I have mainly used Reece or Southern Plumbing and have been satisfied.

No doubt there are others who can deliver the goods but the above has been my experience.

Good luck with your build and make sure you throw up a few photos so we can all see your handy work.

Blu

[Robo]

Thanks Blu Rock, I may have used the wrong term when I said butt jointed. I actually cut a 1/4 inch piece out of the two end posts that the rail fits tightly into then either put two long screws in from the other side of the post or on an angle from underneath, countersinking the heads and bogging them over.

The extra support might be the best way to go. Shame that the post tops are about 2 inches above the rail. I'm thinking a support that just goes to the bottom of the rail might look odd. I suppose I could glue and screw a fake post top to the rail to make it match the others. When it is painted only an experienced eye (and myself) will realize what I did. I am also going to put several stainless wires around it and they probably need a support in the middle over 2.5 meters too.

Does anyone in ADELAIDE know of a good (reasonable prices) place to get stainless fittings. There seems to be a few ways of fixing stainless wires. Some that tighten up like a drill bit, others that need a clamping tool etc. Any advice in that area would be most welcome.

As for the splitting treated pine. What would you suggest making post caps out off? I water proofed the balcony with Gripset products before tiling it. Primer, fabric and blue rubbery compound (Gripset 38). There is also a strip of fabric and 38 that goes over the edge to give a good seal between the thick sheet and the wall. It got tiled on top and painted on the wall edge. (Hope that makes sense!) Anyway, I'm wondering if a bit of this fabric and compound would make a suitable sealer for the tops of the posts. I could also run a length over the entire top of the rail. It has a smoothish finish and when painted will be a lot better than cracks. Have you had any experience with doing something like this, or would I be creating more problems in the long term. i.e. If it is not intended for this purpose I could find it curling and up and falling off in a years time.