G'day folks...help with old english oak desk please.

[Woodwould]

Sanding certainly attains fast results and on weighing up your options, you may decide the already scratched desk won't suffer tremendously from that approach.

I am totally against the use of sandpaper as part of any refinishing process. It's unnecessary and can totally destroy a piece of furniture (as has virtually been the case with your desk at the hands of the previous owner).

Unfortunately sanding is prevalent in some elements of the 'antiques' trade (I'm not aiming at Horsecroft88). But then one could argue that the desk was already compromised by the application of the varnish.

Ultimately the desk should be cleaned off by what ever method and time frame you are comfortable with. Once that's done, then you can evaluate the desk and decide on how to go about finishing it again. A dark-ish stain will amplify the existing scratches, but a very dark stain (like Jacobean oak) will likely obliterate the scratches… and everything else besides!

My inclination would be to preserve the lightest colour possible i.e. without stain and simply brush on a few coats of shellac, rub it out and apply some wax. It's the simplest procedure for a rank amateur to grasp and should give impressive results.

[Lawry01]

Yes..understood! Seems like youre suggesting my best approach now may be to use some stripper to get the surface right, rethink the idea of sanding, and as you say, then decide if I want any, or light or darker stain , then shellac. Is this what youre thinking? I'm thinking that stripper will at least give me a good base to work from, although I guess I lose any of the old natural patina in the desk (the grain is quite nice though!) Would I use paint stripper neat, or a thinned out version on rags etc.?

lawry
ps I'm keen to get to the showgrounds for the woodworking event later this month!

[Woodwould]

Yes..understood! Seems like youre suggesting my best approach now may be to use some stripper to get the surface right, rethink the idea of sanding, and as you say, then decide if I want any, or light or darker stain , then shellac. Is this what youre thinking? I'm thinking that stripper will at least give me a good base to work from, although I guess I lose any of the old natural patina in the desk (the grain is quite nice though!) Would I use paint stripper neat, or a thinned out version on rags etc.?

lawry
ps I'm keen to get to the showgrounds for the woodworking event later this month!

Stripper will likely remove the gunge (at considerable cost), but so will perseverance with meths and steel wool. Even if you do use stripper, there'll be a lot of cleaning up to be done with meths and steel wool at any rate. Even when you think you're done, there will be some gunge remaining. Hence my previous suggestion of letting it sit periodically to highlight any obstinate areas. Final wiping down with copious amounts of meths and clean rags should remove all traces of grey scum.

As said, I would advocate a simple shellac finish followed by wax.

[Lawry01]

Hmmmm....yes. So, it seems like I should just continue with what I've been doing then! Forget stripper, build up my arm muscles , and rub away with the steel wool! Suggestions for the carved areas? I've tried nail brush, but that doesnt seem to be doing much.

[Woodwould]

OK, given that the desk was subjected to varnish, I will concede to the use of stripper on the carvings. But still finish the carvings off with meths, a toothbrush and steel wool.

[Lawry01]

Thank you oh gracious tutor!!!! Your reply did make me laugh! I've just been having another go at the doors, and yes, maybe a little paint stripper will help..and yes, I will finish off as you suggest! Back to the grindstone..or bunnings first...

[Horsecroft88]

Hi all, in the first instance, how you approach something be it an antique or antique joinery in truth should make no difference. The whole point about such wonderful timbers/pieces is their very patina. Their history. I equally am totally against ever destroying this.

The reasons I gave for the method outlined is that it had been varnished, that is a polyeurathane based product had been used and metho won't actually work against a mineral based product like that. Whereas in fact Turps might.

On the other hand you also have to balance out the need to conserve the patina (bumps, scratches, even burn marks or discolouration on a piece, but obviously not bad sanding scratches. That in my view is not really a part of the patina, but rather poorly executed restoration work.

I have been doing this sort of thing, restoring two old heritage properties (one 1850 and my home) the other our 1826 heritage listed country property which will become our home when ready. I also love and have restored many pieces of antique furniture from Colonial to early 1900s. So I do have just a modicum of experience, though I am not for a moment suggesting I am an expert.

My real point though re the use of paint stripper is that it speeds up the process of removal of old finishes one needs to get rid of and that can be most helpful. Ditto, sanding, can and in many cases is actually needed. Again, the key is working with the timbers grain not against it. There isn't a need to be afaid of the use of sanding, for if judicious in its use you won't destroy the patina.

There are always going to be pieces which should have nothing done to them beyond a simple clean and re-waxing. That also is perfectly fine and I have pieces of Colonial Cedar furniture where I have done no more than this.

Let me show some pictures of the sort of work I have done, using the methods described. I doubt if anyone could fault it.

The first lot are of a Tasmanian oak with cedar inset mantle at our country property. In the first instance I used a heat gun to remove the paint, then paint stripped, cleaned, sanded and shellac finished/bees wax polished.

I will show some other pics in another post, as something went wrong the first time I tried to do this. I use fine blade screw drivers or any other suitable implement to tease paint out of the intricate areas in all instances, such as on this piece. To answer the questions re paint stripper, I never dilute it, and as to where to get it, Mitre 10, Bunnings or any decent paint shop should stock this.

[Horsecroft88]

Pictures of the mantle and door and other woodwork restored in the kitchen of our country place. The kauri pine duchess was stripped when bought, some 20 + years ago, and was sanded very badly. With careful sanding, shellac, with just a hint of pine tinters, and fine steel wool and bees wax polish this was the final result.

I hope that provides a level of re-assurance as to what can be achieved. It is not hard to do, it is not rocket science, simply all that is required is a level of careful judgement, patience, and some hard work. Shellac finishes are straight forward to use. I was taught by a TAFE teacher some 20 years ago at a wood work show, in about 10 minutes. The rest is simply experience gained over the years and confidence in what I know works.

[Lawry01]

Folks..firstly, I really want to thank Horsecroft & Wouldwood for the time and effort youre both taking to help me out!! I have already learned a few things from you both. However, I certainly don't want to see a Ford v's Holden type battle occurring here (I am jesting a little here!!) The advice from you both I think leads me to attempt an amalgam of your ideas. I dont say this to keep the peace,, but rather, because I actually think its appropriate! I've bought some stripper now, and will test this out on an incospicuos spot inside the cupboard areas. Then I'll determone whether the sections already worked on with mths/ s/wool need much more..etc. I will keep you up to date with progress!

Shame you both aren't here in sunny Brisbane!!

[Horsecroft88]

The last set of photos show a pair of windows which were installed by my builder in the kitchen which needed to be stripped and the surrounding reveals/lintle, also a photo of the cedar and huon pine joinery in the master bedroom.

The next lot of photos show a mahogany chest I gave a light restoration to, metho strip/steel wool to remove the old shellac finish, light sanding and then re-shellacing/waxing.

The last photo is of my 1830s Cedar chest, which all I have done is give it a steel wool cleanup (0000 grade) and finish of bees wax.

I think the above sets of photos and my comments show what can be readily achieved. Well I hope so. All the best with the desk, for I think you are on the right path with this and it should respond to the love you are giving it. It is a very nice piece of furniture.

[Lawry01]

Beautiful work.....i love the grain and the patina.
Have just sampled stripper on theinside and one of the legs...actually pretty pleased with the result, still leaves a little bit of colour, rather than bare wood. I'm leaving it on for around 10 minutes or so, is this right?

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Lawry and thanks, I too love the results of what I have achieved. I think that is the type of satisfaction any of us can feel, after all the hard work is done.

Excellent, it sounds as if you are on track. If you don't loose all the colour from the wood, so much the better and the end result should be richer in colour.

My other half has a english oak desk. Didn't pay much for it but the colour of the timber and grain really makes it very special. We were lucky for it was in original and sound condition and a coat of wax was all that was required.

I am sure your project too will be one to be proud of.

Re the timeframes for leaving paint stripper on, the key is generally for not too long before cleaning it off. 10 mins sounds like perhaps a little long to me, from my experience I probably would halve that to around 5 mins given what you are wanting to do. If I am finishing off something and there is just a slight amount I need to remove, I will simply paint it on and pretty much start using the steel wool to clean up with. However, it really will vary pretty much every time and just how much muck you need to clean off. With paint, I normally err on a bit longer than say with a varnish/poly finish.

As I previously noted, if using paint stripper, then please also make sure you clean the surface off with metho, or oxalic acid, since if not you might have problems down the track with the finish coats you want to use on the desk.

Depending on what finish you want to use on your desk, for instance if shellac, but there are other finishes that could be equally suitable, there is a simple and straight forward method to apply it, but there are a few techniques which are important to be aware of.

The key to remember is preparation of the surface to work on will help with the final finish/appearance. Also just how much gloss/lustre of finish you want. With Shellacs you can achieve a very soft almost dull finish (depending on various techniques) to high gloss. The other thing to remember if using shellac is don't do it in a cold workshop, as it can make the shellac coat go milky. Perhaps this wouldn't be a problem where you, but it sure can be down here in Tassie.

I would be most happy to discuss how to use shellac if you were interested. Obviously the more coats of whatever finish you apply the deeper the finish and better the protection you will have for it.

[Lawry01]

Thanks Horsecroft, and Woodwould!

Yes, I have now done a combo of both your approaches, and feel I'm almost at the end of this stage! Am stopping now, as my hands nd fingers are somewhat numb, and the feel of steel wool under my fingernails is a little painful!!! nevertheless..onwards & upowards...tomorrow I'll have a look at areas that need some final rubbing back, and then take a few pics for you both to look at. (please don;t judge my work too harshly sirs!!) I'm pretty pleased with the grain and colour remaining after this work. The top is obviously the area that might need some sanding, due to he poor work done previously....but I'm sure we'll chat about that soon! The front/ back & sides look great. Might need to do more around the carved areas though.

On a separate note, I must say that I have thoroughly enjoyed the experience so far..its really the first time I've tackled such a project, other than staining my Tassie Oak kitchen some time back in Melbourne!! Might be a convert here to restoring/ refinishing old furniture. It's alwayws been a sideline interest of mine. So, once again, thanks to you guys for your help, support, and encouragement! Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Know the feeling all too well Lawry. Look forward to seeing more photos of your desk, when you can post them.

Happy to pass on any little knowledge/experience I can as I am sure others likewise are. Glad to see you gaining something from this, and enjoying the experience. The rewards can be really great in finishing what you are working on, both personal satisfaction and comments from others who will see what you have done.

All the best, Dave

[Lawry01]

OK FOlks...I reckon I've just about got it prepared for next step.....your views - please mark my work! Whats next?

Pics of most of the angles attached for you, including one of the worst part of the scratches..not sure whether to leave, or sand? Also, having gone this far, I wonder whether its worth looking at replacing the leather inlay..its really in poor unerepairable condition I think, but no idea how to do this. Again, many thanks for your help here!

Regards, Lawry