Advice needed for some new projects

[Lawry01]

HC..fascinating reading the above.....and I guess it is the high end that would keep high prices! I have, however, been amazed here in Brisvegas that very similar pieces, and in similar condition, can vary in price so much from suburb to suburb...and I mean by $'000's!. (and yes, I know, that unIess one is expereienced, what can look similar may in fact be quite different, and therefore, valued accordingly..but I'm not so sure!) have actually wanted to go the next step and experience a few antique auctions here in Brisbane, so now will be on the lookout!
Looking forward to your progress with the tables & secretaire! Tomorrow is now my wax off wax on day......ubeaut trad wax in hand! Now to the red wine!! Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hey Lawry, for sure I know what you mean, and yes the shop I mentioned and prices are up there. Of you shop around you can do better. Having said that though we do have many expensive antique shops down here. I know as I have trawlers sonny over the years. The other thing too is that many of the dealers are importing container loads of English and european antiques and despite the antiquity of them with pieces dating back to the 15th and 16thC, while so much is being imported it doesn't seem to be reflected by lower prices. The impact on early Aus pieces if anything seems to be making them more expensive. Auctions can be a good option, but you really need to do your homework. I have bought well at auction, but also sold pieces at auction and got bugger all. People are after all looking for bargains. A bit like on eBay, and yes I have also bought antiques on eBay. But you do need to be careful. I will post some pics re this, and yes I have also been dudded on eBay. Enjoy wax on wax off day. Glass of red is at hand and being enjoyed. Will make a start on projects very shortly. Will post progress reports-photos.

[Horsecroft88]

Queens birthday holiday. So I thought I would make a start on the table with the broken leg. I will post pictures tomorrow. So after managing to unscrew the myriad of rusty screws and taking off each of the 4 plates holding the leg together, what I found was that in fact the leg is broken in two places, and as suspected the leg joint to the main shaft is a mortise and tenon joint. That is the bad news, but not surprising, as one of the other legs has been repaired in the past. So the question I need to sort out for myself is how to repair the breaks. Looking at the section which has the tenon and the first section of the leg, I M thinking what I need to do is glue this back together as it is all pretty tight within the mortise. If needs I could always pin or put a screw in, from underneath and putty the hole. After all I am going to have to putty up all the other screw holes, as well completely strip and re shellac the whole table. The second break is pretty clean and perhaps rather than inserting a biscuit, I might be better off inserting one or two dowels, plus glue and if necessary pin/screw from below. More on this later. As if I don't need any more projects, I just acquired a pretty impressive kauri pine kitchen dressed top. It will require paint stripping and shellac finish. So plenty to keep me going for the time being. Time for coffee and have a look at the start of stripping off the old tired polish on the table.

[Horsecroft88]

See below the photos that I took yesterday of the broken leg (2 breaks), the countless holes that will need to be filled etc. I took the photos with my Iphone and emailed them to my work, but for some reason they seem to be around the wrong may around. I also took photos of the dresser top, but to see them, you will need to crook your head, or tilt your computer to see them the correct way. Undoubtedly there is a way to do this correctly.

[pmcgee]

Hi.
If you look at the photos on your hard-disk, you can re-orient them there.
Then when they upload they will retain the orientation.
(for PCs anyway)
Cheers,
Paul.

[Lawry01]

HC..was beginning to wonder what happened to you....thought I'd give you till the long-weekend to see your progress..so, just in the nick of time. Been missing these sortees!!

I'm keen to see your progress with the leg break (and of course the other projects) as I noticed some breaks on the back rest carvings on one of a pairof old chippenale style bedroom chairs we have - definitely one job I'll be seeking my sesnais' wisdom on!

The dresser looks like it will be a fun little restore job, and no doubt will come up a treat!

Re your pics..Paul is on track..depending on what software you have, you should have something to edit any photos quite easily. I'm on microsoft office 2007, and I use Picture Manager. See how you go..you can resize, crop, rotate, etc.

Glad to see you back! lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Paul and Lawry, many thanks for the advice re sorting out the posting of my photos. It only seems to be a problem when loading photos taken with the iphone, not the digi camera.

Yes I know what you mean Lawry, I had been meaning to make a start on my next lot of projects but things kept getting in the way of starting. At least now I have made a start. I need to gather up my tools and materials, to make a real start on this, but I left them out at the country property, what a dill I was, so will bring these home on the weekend.

I will head up to the hardware store to grab some dowels as I think this will be the best way to sort out the two sections of the broken leg. I have the glue here at work (lent by a mate of mine, one being Anchor Weld adhesive for timber and particle board, while the other Sellys Super Durable, Durabond, strong and waterproof woodworking glue). I have no idea which glue perhaps is the best, but according to my mate both are excellent and far better than normal PVA.

I will fix the first part of the leg tonight, glueing, clamping and thereafter see whether or not I need to screw/pin the leg. Putting a screw in sounds like it might be stronger, albeit in a way I really don't want to go down this route.

As you would have seen the leg is a little like swiss cheese with so many holes in it. I will fix both breaks first, and putty up the holes before stripping the old finish off the table, as I know I will need to do a little light sanding, before starting the shellacing process. Once I get going the process should happen pretty rapidly, unlike the dresser top which is going to be a pain having to burn off all the paint, cleaning up the muck with paint stripper etc. Luckily I am somewhat used to all that.

Will keep updating the thread with comment and pictures as I can. Thanks for the interest and have "fun" with those chairs of yours, when you feel ready to start.

[Horsecroft88]

Just a quick update, do I re-glued and positioned the top part of the leg back in the mortice joint and have a clamp holding it in place. Then I thought I might try sanding back the bottom part of the leg using worn 220 grade and finished off with 400. Then I wiped off dust with a damp rag. Once dry, I put a few costs of shellac, now having a cuppa. Will pt on a few more coats before heading off to slumbers. Now the issue here is that some times this approach won't work as you can get a reaction between the old-dry shellac and the new shellac. If this happens then there is no other option but to properly strip off the old shellac. The other thing I am happy with is that the brass end cap and little castor wheel looks like they will cleanup ok. Nice original feature. I know the colour will be lighter than how the table looks now, but that is ok, as the current finish is tired/gone off. Will try posting some pics tomorrow, and hopefully correctly orientated.

[Horsecroft88]

As mentioned in last nights quick update, here are the next lot of photos, the first ones are after I had sanded the leg back (lightly) so as not to loose any of the bumps, dents, and darker colours that have penetrated the wood grain, and washed it down with a damp rag. As mentioned I know this method of sanding off the old shellac finish and applying a new coat can be a little problematic (ie. reaction and a kind of bubbling of the finish) but I was happy to give it a try, especially as I didn't have any metho, steel wool or even paint stripper at hand.

The next photo shows the leg with its first few coats of new shellac. At this stage it all looks like it will work, (eg. no reaction occurring), but we will see. I suspect I will for the rest of the table use my normal approach, though am thinking I might even try and leave the turned post section alone, perhaps simply a 0000 steel wool and wax buff.

[Horsecroft88]

And one more photo of the first stage of the leg repair, having glued the two sections and as clamped. Now for the next stage of the leg repair, the more difficult part to attempt. As you will have been able to see from one of the previous photos, the leg section was screwed in the past to the top part of the leg, so all going well I can re-use this screw hole, I just need to find a decent length screw that will bite and hold it together.

[Lawry01]

Good progress I see! Also, I wasnt aware that applying new over old shellac could result in a reaction! I would have thought a light sand, or rub with 000/ 0000 would be suficient...oh well, learning all the time.

What sort of weight would you hope your repair to be able to deal with?

[Horsecroft88]

Hey Lawry, yes I am afraid so, yet another small trap for the unwary. The funny thing with shellac from my experience is that it seems to be only a problem with old shellac finishes. If recoating a newly applied/restored shellac finished item, that it isn't a problem, even in respect of things that perhaps were restored upto around 20 years. I say this as every now and again I need to go over some of the shellac finished joinery I have at home, which for the most part was done somewhere between 10-20 years ago.

On the other hand, with furniture dating backwards from the 1920s into the 1800s I would be wary of this reaction problem occurring. The funny thing is I can usually tell pretty early on if it is going to be a problem, as old shellac when re-coated with new shellac has a musty/oldish sort of odour. Hence the keying back to see if it will take or be a problem.

I had success in using this method a little while ago with a cedar balloon back chair I needed to restore, but in other instances, no way, problems and therefore stripping back properly was required.

Once I get the leg fully repaired, then progress hopefully will pick up on the table. Re what sort of weights should it be able to hold, yes that is a good question. I think in the interests of it not breaking again, I would tend to err on the conservative side of things and suggest small items, maybe a few books/magazines, but definitely nothing too heavy. Definitely not to be used to be sat on by humans !!

[Lawry01]

Once I get the leg fully repaired, then progress hopefully will pick up on the table. Re what sort of weights should it be able to hold, yes that is a good question. I think in the interests of it not breaking again, I would tend to err on the conservative side of things and suggest small items, maybe a few books/magazines, but definitely nothing too heavy. Definitely not to be used to be sat on by humans !! [/QUOTE]

I share your ! I guess its always a bit of a shame when restoring doesnt give you the items previous full use . However, it will no doubt look fantastic, and hold its own in amongst the other beautiful furniture you've worked on! I also ask about weight as the pending chippendale chair repair will have me asking a similar question when I get to it (or is that if????) so its on my mind every time my wife goes to sit on it!! ARGHHHHH!!

[Horsecroft88]

I know what you mean, and yes you are correct, but, and perhaps that is the point, I think the real answer re what can a repaired item cope with is two folds. What was it designed to cope with (in terms of structural and build quality) as well as its intended purpose. Moreover, it also depends on how skilled the repairer is and repair undertaken.

In terms of this drop leaf side table, with its splayed legs it probably wasn't intended ever to be used for really heavy items, but more so for display purposes. So long as my repairs come out as well as I hope (time will tell), I think it should be good once more for that. I am perfectly confident that I can make it look nice once more.

In respect of your chairs, hmn chairs goodluck, no seriously, in truth the above should also hold true, albeing of course that the repair section obviously becomes the weakest point into the future. However, a well repaired chair from my experience and i have a number of repaired chairs, should so long as treated with respect (and i actually believe antiques require this anyway), should be more than capable of being used as chairs rather than simply for decoration.

It also perhaps depends a little where the breaks are on a chair, as that will dictate how you can repair it, and/or how well, which of course has implications re ongoing use as a chair.

My advice at this time is look at what needs to be done, what options do you have and/if in any doubt that it the structural repairs are beyond your capabilities, it might be worth talking to a professional re at least making it sound. Afterall, you now are a fully fledged polisher, so you can always do that part of the restoration. Hope that helps a little. Dave

[Horsecroft88]

Just a really quick update on the projects. I have been progressing a little slowly with the table. I have filled all the old screw holes with wood putty (cedar), which I might need to try to colour using some wood stain as it is lighter than the actual timber. Also have continued with coating of shellac and further light sanding. It is now starting to get the sort of finish I am after, though I still need to add more coats of shellac before I will be happy.

Also I have filled and sanded back the joint/holes on the main part of the table (see picture), and started shellac finishing this. What I still need to do is the main repair to the leg, with dowls and glue, plus the addition of 1 screw from below. I also need to strip back and re-polish the other legs. Once I have all of this done, I can make a start on the table top.

I also made a start on the pine dresser top, heat gunning paint off it yesterday, I am probably at about the half way mark with this, then comes the fun part, not, using paint stripper, coarse grade steel wool, to get the residual off. Then for sanding and shellac finising.

I will continue to work on both projects but time is a little limited at the moment, and there is only so much I can stand of the horrid paint fumes when heatgunning. You do need to be careful with this, as many of the old paints contained lead, and so by burning off the paint, you release some lead fume into the air. Hence mask and good ventilation being most important.

Will update next once more progress achieved.