Time for another project or two......1800's Piano Stool

[Lawry01]

Hi Jim! Thanks for your reply and suggestions . My main concern of course is around the resultant strength post-gluing, and will the frame take the tension of new webbing (& a few large deriers to follow no doubt!) The problem with the broken/ cracked areas is a fair bit of splintering of the wood fibres (hard to see in the pics) and this might make the job dificult. I do agree, that filling all the tack holes would be useful (& HIDDEN) so I'm quite sympathetic to your ideas here! Will mull for a short while, and hpefully someone else may have some additional thoughts. Meantime, I need to go source new webbing etc. Not sure where around south brisbane yet. Cheers, Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Lawry, just managed to catchup on the latest episode re this stool, and especially Jim's advice. I actually think his advice is perfectly sound. I know it may sound a little simplistic, but actually it should work. Ditto I think what you are suggesting regarding putting the tacks a little further out makes sense.

My take on perhaps why the wood may have split is (as yours) that either someone when previously re-upholstering it, got a little carried away with the tensioning of the webbing, and/or some of the webbing was loose, and allowed parts to sag. Also perhaps someone sat down on the stool a little too hard.

I think the key to being able to recover correctly (that is as it was with webbing and padding) is for the frame to be made as strong as possible. I don't know if it might be possible to put a little bracing into the frame to help ??? Otherwise yes the only other way I can think of making this strong is to place a sheet of ply or similar on the bottom and cover with black cotton cloth (dust cover) to make it appear that it has been repaired correctly.

I have seen this sort of problem in the past with other peoples chairs etc that needed restoration. The old swiss cheese damage to the frame always is an issue to be overcome. Look forward to the next installment.

[Grandad-5]

Hey Lawry,
How goes the project?
Thought you might be interested in this.
Went to the local auction here last week and there was a piano stool on offer.
It appeared all original and I was interested to see the upholstery was nothing like yours. Just a piece of plywood with I presume some wadding on top then the leather.

Was described in the catalog as "1920's Blackwood piano stool"

I'm not in the habit of taking a camera to an auction so had to rely on my phone camera.
Attachment 217640 Attachment 217641

Quality of photos leave a lot to be desired but hopefully clear enough to see.
Opening bid of $120, nobody else interested, sold for $120

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

Jim, thanks for this. It does look fairly similar to mine, although I have a ittle more 'curve' in the legs and scrolls in the turned handles which I think make mine look a little more interesting and appealing. Funny to see that it has a ply base to the seat..yes, I reckon not original, or if so, perhaps detracts a little from the value. The brown 'leather' on top looks similar to mine...I do to my dismay, believe it to be a good piece of vinyl, (it has a material/ mesh type backing , so assume its not leather) so am deciding whether to re-use it, or use a piece of tapestry style material we have leftover from an earlier dining setting re-cover.
Progress so far.....lots of thinking, and have glued in the broken piece of frame, and re-bonded the cracked timbers where the original hinges were recessed. Looks a bit untidy (my glueing) but will post pics soon. Anyway..all that will be hidden.
Interestingly enough, I have seen piano stools similar to this, and mine, in 'good' restored condition in antique dealers for the $300 -400 mark. Whether they sell at that I dont know!
So..best get on with the task then, now that HC has finished his table, we need something to chat about!! Cheers, Lawry

[Grandad-5]

I have seen piano stools similar to this, and mine, in 'good' restored condition in antique dealers for the $300 -400 mark. Whether they sell at that I dont know!

I'm 99% certain it was sold to a dealer so that's his wholesale price. Retail? Yeah, around the $300 mark asking prices sounds about right. Remember, asking price and eventual selling price can be two different things. Depends on the piece, time of year etc etc. Actually, one dealer once told me if a piece doesn't sell, put the price up.
Interesting concept.

This particular piece needed no work. A coat of Marveer and on the floor I would think. Dealers here don't seem to want to spend anything on what they buy. If it needs any restoration work performed they don't bid. Which of course suits me just fine because guess who then gets the opportunity to buy it?
Jim

[Lawry01]

[quote=Grandad-5;1527711]I'm 99% certain it was sold to a dealer so that's his wholesale price. Retail? Yeah, around the $300 mark asking prices sounds about right. Remember, asking price and eventual selling price can be two different things. Depends on the piece, time of year etc etc. Actually, one dealer once told me if a piece doesn't sell, put the price up.
Interesting concept.

I would be pleased to test this concept ! I've always had an inkling that this would work well on the human psyche!!

Also, I've yet to get to an antique auctionb, but it is on my 'do soon' list! Cheers, Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

You guys are both spot on, at an auction you generally buy at the wholesale price, that is unless a private buyer goes a little silly with the bidding, and that does happen. But it is a place where bargains can be found, especially project pieces. The table I just finished was bought for about $80 and I think that may have included the buyer's premium. Auction houses add both a buyers and a sellers premium in most cases, (well down here they do) which equates to about a 30% addition to the hammer price. That is what the Auction house gets for selling each piece. Then of course the dealer adds what ever they think they can get away with, which sometimes leaves a little room for haggling.

Auctions can be good fun, but my advice, from my experience is, do your homework. That is have a look around antique dealers, junk shops etc, to see what prices are being asked for what. You soon get a pretty good handle on such things. The other thing if you serious about going to auctions is check out books such as Carters Antiques guides, and/or even ebay. Both again will give you further insight into the market prices.

Also even just going to an auction without any intention of buying anything also will give you a good idea of how it all works. The auctions I have been to locally, after a while you get to know who the dealers are, what they are interested in, and how much they are willing to spend. That is when you are in a position sometimes to out bid them. The last thing is auction fatigue. If an item you are interested in, comes later on in the auction, you also often can have a good chance of getting it for what you think it is worth. Usually the dealers have got what they want and left or couldn't be bothered anymore, that is unless it is a really special auction.

Country auctions also can be a better option than say a city one as well.

Ok, Lawry it is your turn now, for as you say I have finished my current project. The next one I have is simply really only a stripping and repolishing exercise. No major repairs necessary as far as I can see.

So am looking forward to seeing how the piano stool structural repairs came up, let alone your re-upolstering. I need sometime to do that to some chairs I have, as the webbing, padding and covers are pretty knackered. I know that at least on one of the chairs a leg is wobbly as well.

[Lawry01]

OK folks....some limited progress. (pics attached ) Major cracks/ splits glued..all appears sound (although messy looking..but will be covered anyway) Ready to re-upholster. Thinking I might attach the webbing from underneath, which will minimise likelhood of strain re-damaging the framing.
Also, I have a few options on finishing the whole piece. The scratches on the stool are quite deep (from my childhood days...I remember being told off accordningly!) and thus will not really benefit from keying back/ sanding unless I go so far that I remove all the patina, character, colour and a lot of timber!
So...as a guide, I've 'cheated' a little and used restore-a-finish on the whole thing. Looks much nicer now..but...(and I AM open to being chided here for my laziness) do you think I should go ahead and key back a little anywayh, then apply a few coats of shellac? Or do you think the RaF has done an OK job, and just needs a coat or 2 of wax?

All being well, I'll have a go at the webbing etc. tonight.
Lawry

[Christos]

I am not able to comment but still watching.

[Grandad-5]

So...as a guide, I've 'cheated' a little and used restore-a-finish on the whole thing. Looks much nicer now..but...(and I AM open to being chided here for my laziness) do you think I should go ahead and key back a little anywayh, then apply a few coats of shellac? Or do you think the RaF has done an OK job, and just needs a coat or 2 of wax?

Hi Lawry,
I really think that is a personal choice. Basically, if you're happy with the result that's all the justification you need.

I actually went out and bought some a few days ago after hearing you guys talking about it.
Tried it out on the lid of an old Singer sewing machine which was pretty knocked around.
I must say, I'm impressed. The finish isn't perfect by any means but it looks now like it's still obviously quite old and there is some imperfections in the finish but it now looks like all it's life it's been well looked after.
As opposed to the truth, which is it's been knocked around and neglected.

So I guess if I was to try to describe the effect I would say it brings a knocked around piece up to the level of well cared for but not to the point where it has obviously been restored back to it's former glory..

Would you agree with that description? Is that state of affairs satisfactory for your piece? If so....question answered. If not, go further.

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

Jim, yes I agree with your description! Knocked around, but looking well cared for suits it well! The 'astounding' claims around RaF I think are a bit over the top. I do like it, and I have heard anecdotally that many antique restorers and dealers are using it on pieces that can be brought back to that 'well loved' old look without hours of keying back etc. I've used it on a few pieces with sucess, but certainly not the restored look. It would have been useless on my old desk for example!
So, yes, I need to comtemplate the very question you ask....Is that state of affairs satisfactory for my piece????? Well, I generally think yes, but I also wonder what some extra elbow grease would create? The little perfectionist streak in me is struggling, but I'll think on it !
My main issue is the depth of the scratches, which will not respond to the keying back process really, so in some ways, leaving well alone might be the order of the day!

[Lawry01]

A bit more progress!
Now that I've satisfied myself that keying the stool right back will really not be a good option (deep scratches, etc.) I decided to go ahead and have a shot at the webbing and upholstery.

Pics below show the new webbing in place (from underneath this time), followed by hessian to hold in the wadding. Then I put in the old wadding (underpinned by some dacron fill, as it had obviously compacted over the decades...and I needed to fill the space now the webbing is underneath) then a second hessian covering over the whole kit. Next step I guess is to cover it. UNfortunately, the 'leather' that was on it is actually too small (as I need to tack it in further out due to he timber cracks/ repairs etc.) and I have discovered it to be a vinyl (I assume no leather comes with a material webbed backing?) Either way, its too small, so now I need to consider what covering I want.

Keen on any feedback. ideas etc. Cheers, Lawry

[Grandad-5]

I assume no leather comes with a material webbed backing

Yeah, it comes from the same horses that have nylon mane and tails and plastic hooves.

I think your padding is sitting a bit high. Can you push it back down towards the webbing a bit harder?

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

Hi Jim, yup....I have come across that breed of horse many a time!!

Re the pading..I figure I can do a bit of sitting on it to compress it. Otherwise, my only option is probably to remove the hessian and remove/ reduce the dacron. I'll have a go at sitting and see how that works. Also, I asume that whatever covering I choose, I can stretch that over to compress a little more?
Cheers,
lawry

[Lawry01]

Well folks, no I havent dropped off the edge of he earth, although thewe last few weeks that might have been a good thing!!

My old late 1800's piano stool is now done, and stands proudly in the baywindow of our formal lounge. Looks great on our brushbox floor! I've sat on it without that sinking feeling!!! I reckon it looks beter than when m family acquired it nearly 50 years back.

The pics attached show the finished piece, waxed, re-upholstered in a piece of gold velvet from my mother. It has a crease in it where it was folded for so many years (couldn;t cut out a piece without fold marks) SWMBO suggests I leave it and it will 'come out' eventually!
So, for those interested..what I did:

- removed the lid and all old webbing, wadding, cover etc.
- re-glued the broken sections of frame and split around the hinge recesses, and rear face
- re-webbed, put in old wadding with some extra, and finished with the velvet covering
- cleaned the timber with 0000/ spirits
- x(now this is where the purists may need to bite their tongues ) decided to NOT key back and re-shellac (reading the thread, you'll see I decided this based on the number of deep gouges a young angelic me, and no doubt many pre-dated owners 'added' to the piece...would have needed too much timber to be keyed off) so....tried a couple of applications of (dark oak ) RaF & was happy with result
- finished the whole piece with U-beaut Trad Wax, then buffed
- finished the top with gold braid and brass antique style tacks.

So....now to get on with the next project!!

Dave...time you got on with yours too mate!!

As always, thanks to all for your advice and help, and to those who simply enjoyed watching this thread! Cheers, Lawry