parental responsibility

[Barry_White]

This maybe over simplefying the problem but I feel it comes down to the "Soggy Chip Syndrome"

Most kids would prefer to have nice fresh crisp hot chips but if they can't get them they will settle for Cold Soggy Chips.

That is a bit like the attention they receive. If they can't get quality loving attention they will settle for any type of attention they can get and they can be assured of getting that by bad behaviour.

[TassieKiwi]

Linelefty

I'm a parent of two awesome loveable bouncy vivacious willful manipulating dramaqueen pre-schoolers. I would like to have this conversation in 4yrs time, when you have experienced what you must, and reacted as you must, to the immense and varied responsibilities of being a parent. Judge then - not now. Good luck, and love'em to bits.

Den

[gemi_babe]

I too thought I would be the 'perfect' parent and that my child will never scream, tantrum out in public but nothing ever goes to plan.
I was smacked by the hand, the spoon and it only stopped when I could run faster then my dad...oh they were the days hahahaha Me and my dad laugh at that. He fell over while chasing me but at that stage I had learnt respect and they knew the need for smacking was not there anymore.

Linelefty what you may find out is that most children will behave like angels when not in the company of their parents.
My son is an absolute angel when being looked after by his grandparents, at kindy and when he went to a daycare when I was forced back to work. The most frustrating time of my life when I walk into the room see him obeying and being a really loveable kid. Bring him home and its back to Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde (spelling?).

I have tried being the calm patient nice parent but the thing I have learnt is that you can't argue with a toddler. They have no reasoning.
Take something away from him, he doesn't care. He will go play with rocks and sticks to amuse himself.

Everyone has their own personality and some kids have stronger ones than others. My son is very strong headed, thick skinned and nothing much bothers him. How would you discipline that?

Good Luck

Gemi

[silentC]

LineLefty, that's all very laudable but I can't wait to hear how you got on. Do let us know, say in 5 years? If you have NEVER smacked your kid, then you will truly deserve my awe. In the meantime, try not to be too judgemental of people who have already been, or are still going through it. Walk a mile in my shoes as they say.

[Zed]

my old man used to bash me - it made me smarter - it didnt make me behave any better though. I abhor violence in any form except as a last resort. i have no kids so am not qualified to comment except thus :

"violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"

whether you choose to ignore. disagree or agree is your choice - dont bash your kids - not good.

[silentC]

Zed, nobody is talking about bashing anyone. At least I hope not. I would sooner jump off a cliff than do anything that would physically injure one of my kids and if I saw anyone else doing it, they would be the one going over the cliff.

What I am talking about is what most reasonable people understand as a 'smack'. This is where you strike them across the arm or the leg with the fingers of an open hand so that it makes a sound but does not sting. You can do this to yourself. If it hurts, it's too hard. That's what most people mean when they talk about smacking their kids.

My two don't get smacked very often but every now and then it's the only way to get through to them. I may be incompetent as a parent but then how many people are competent in that regard? It's not like they give you an instruction manual at the hospital. You learn on the job and it's a 24 hour 7 day a week job. You make mistakes and you find what works for you and your kids. Sometimes you lose your cool. It's life, not a TV show.

[Wongo]

There is no magic formula but for our 3yr girl it is

100% love = 90% reason + 10% discipline.

I discipline my daughter when I think I need to. Sometimes I take her to the corner and talk to her face to face. Sometimes I hit her on her palm gently. Yes I believe it is necessary, she needs to know I am the boss. If you don’t teach them while they still listen then they never will.

It is our child, we brought her to this world, we love her and take care of her so I think we have the right to choose what we think is the best way to raise her.

[LineLefty]

Hmm,

The reasoning that I havent dealt with a screamnig 4yr old is a plausible one and I'm definitely not saying that our children will be angels.

It's simple a philsophical stand that I hope....know, will ast throughout my parenthood. That is, that I dont want to teach me child that the way to solve problems is through violence and intimidation.

Take the child away from the problem, take the problem away from the child, let them know your anger in no uncertain terms.

It strikes me as unusual that many people seem to say that they have kids who have "run off the rails" or are just all round pains in the bum. I ask you, did smacking them make any difference?

Please, try to understand the difference between a parent who chooses not to smack/intimidate and one who chooses to set no limits.

Havign read through my last to posts, I apologise for being a tad (just a tad!) judgemental . Theres a difference between those who use a light smack and those shopping centre painmongers.

MY parenting style experienced is limited only to my extended - ethnic - family where smacking was used as a first up discipline tool. I've yet to havea good conversation with a parent who had similar intentions to us but failed, I'd like to though.

And dont worry, I'll keep you posted.

[silentC]

Contrary to a lot of what you hear, I believe that kids are born hard-wired in a lot of ways. You can probably modify their behaviour with extreme action on either end of the scale but I reckon a lot of what you get is down to genes. If that were not true, all of your kids would behave identically. I can tell you that I am quite different in many ways to both of my sisters, as they are from each other, yet there are only 3 years between us and so our parents' parenting style can't have been that different.

I consider myself lucky that both of my kids are good most of the time. Conversely, I think that some parents are unlucky. I hope you are one of the lucky ones.

[PAH1]

HI all

I am the parent of twin 2yr old boys, they are adorale but also wilful. They have limits of behaviour already and know that there are consequences for their behaviour. When they hurt each other, generally out of a quick bout of unreasoning madness, they are made to say sorry and hug the other. Rarely is anything more required, but note it is rarely, they try many things out just to see what happens. In doing this they are normal but you do need to set boundaries and enforce them consistently not just when you can be bothered.

I was at one stage a school teacher, I now have a PhD my wife an MSc, does this make us better parents? Not really, but thinking ahead of the situation helps. I think that the greatest thing that you can teach your children is that there are consequences to their actions, ie good you get praised (and I do not mean line lefty's sit there and be quiet as good) bad and you know that you are not going to like the result.

My two sons are very different and require very different means in dealing with their beahviour. One is a "daddy's boy" and can be disciplined by simply indicating that you are very upset with him, this would happen on average 1 time a week at the moment. The other is more obstinate and requires that you are simply more plain in what you expect and that once the incident is over that everything is alright again between him and you, frequency is about the same as the other.

To pose another question, when I was in Yr 12 one of the Yr7 students killed an unconscious aboriginal man with a shovel because his mates dared him to do it. Was it upbringing or just a bad kid?

[LineLefty]

(and I do not mean line lefty's sit there and be quiet as good)

To pose another question, when I was in Yr 12 one of the Yr7 students killed an unconscious aboriginal man with a shovel because his mates dared him to do it. Was it upbringing or just a bad kid?

One of my 12yr old cousins was diagnosed with ADHD and is on the dexies. He now sits at the barbecue quietly, not talking to anyone and obediently obeys his parents. The whoel family praises him and thinks it's wonderful.

I think I was the onyl one who thinks it's a bit sad.

Also, without knowign the details of this case.......................seriously though, theres an element of bad parenting but also, a child has to have the emotional capacity to do that in the first place.

[PAH1]

One of my 12yr old cousins was diagnosed with ADHD and is on the dexies. He now sits at the barbecue quietly, not talking to anyone and obediently obeys his parents. The whoel family praises him and thinks it's wonderful.

I think I was the onyl one who thinks it's a bit sad.

Actually I agree with you. There is growing evidence that the drugs that they use to control this sort of thing do nothing to help what is actually going on in the childs brain ie they are not helping at all. What they help is the parents and teachers who have to deal with them because now they have a docile child who can be dealt with but the problem is still there.

My nephew has PDD-Nos (At least thats what they call it in dutch) and he can be dealt with by those who have the training and time to be able to do it. He moved to a new school and the teachers did not have the time and suddenly it was demanded that he be medicated or he would be removed from the school. He was targeted because of the group he was in he was the one that had something that would respond to medication thus freeing up teacher time for other students.

[LineLefty]

if all else fails, I'll just whip out the #4 and take a few shavings. That'll teach them a lesson.

[silentC]

What they help is the parents and teachers who have to deal with them because now they have a docile child who can be dealt with but the problem is still there

We probably can't imagine the hell that parents of kids like this go through. It's probably the only thing that keeps them from commiting infanticide.

It's a very good point though. A friend of ours was diagnosed with post-natal depression (that's another one you might find out about, Adam). She was also having problems with her husband, who wanted to carry on his old life of going to the pub with his mates every night. She threatened to leave him a number of times. They put her on anti-depressants and they made her much calmer but she just let hubby do what he wanted and it didn't bother her. She got fed up with taking them because they made her feel so lethargic and docile and went off them for awhile. Of course the trouble started up again. She's back on them now. It's not helping her much but it's making the hubby's life easier.

[gemi_babe]

My nephew was diagnosed ADD at age 5. Was on the drugs for 5 years. His school work improved slightly ie handwritting. Fortunetly he has grown up, now 15 and has learnt to control his behaviour and is off the drugs but his mother, my sister, had post natal depression undiagnosed for the first 6 years of his life so was it his mothers "can't be bothered" attitude due to the depression that made him an uncontrollable 5 year old or was it ADD??

I think ADD and ADHD is in some cases an excuse for slack parents. I don't think it is diagnosed through blood taken or chemical inbalances monited in the brain, It's (my nephew was) diagnosed by a shrink and instead of making mums and dads curve the diet they throw drugs at them.
Artificial foods these days are not only causing more sickness, cancers it is also the reason we have so many uncontrollable children.

I took my son off all artificial sweetners and he is a much nicer, calmer child most of the time. I bake my own bread and we don't have take-aways anymore.

Cheers,
Kylie