Sparkie materials prices

[Master Splinter]

And many would have us in the 3rd world every one do your own thing situation.

I agree. New Zealand's electrocution rate really zoomed up the charts since they allowed DIY electrical work. Oh, wait, no it hasn't, it's pretty much where it had been before.

Like all those other lax countries that allow DIY electrical work - their electrocution rates have been significantly higher than Australia's...except for the fact that they've been consistently lower than Australia's. (I seem to recall some guy from Denmark(?) posting on this forum saying you could get a merit badge in the scouts for being able to do wiring)

Australia's high-by-international-standards electrocution rate didn't actually start to decline (2005-ish) until government/industry undertook specific advertising to: 1) Get crane drivers to look where they were swinging the crane boom and 2) Get sparkies to stop working on switchboards 'n stuff while the circuits are still live.

[A Duke]

I agree. New Zealand's electrocution rate really zoomed up the charts since they allowed DIY electrical work. Oh, wait, no it hasn't, it's pretty much where it had been before.

Like all those other lax countries that allow DIY electrical work - their electrocution rates have been significantly higher than Australia's...except for the fact that they've been consistently lower than Australia's. (I seem to recall some guy from Denmark(?) posting on this forum saying you could get a merit badge in the scouts for being able to do wiring)

Australia's high-by-international-standards electrocution rate didn't actually start to decline (2005-ish) until government/industry undertook specific advertising to: 1) Get crane drivers to look where they were swinging the crane boom and 2) Get sparkies to stop working on switchboards 'n stuff while the circuits are still live.

If you do not have electrical rules and training its like having no road rules and you can drive on which ever side of the road you like regardless of which country you are in.
For what it's worth I had my scouts Electricians badge at 12 and fitted my first plug top under my mother's super vision at 6. Them were the days and it wasn't in Australia either.

[Master Splinter]

Check the goo.gl link I posted a few replies ago.

It's a 50-odd page document that contains all the knowledge and information that the New Zealand electrical regulator requires NZ'ers to know so they can undertake their own electrical wiring. There's your officially sanctioned 'road rules and training' for simple domestic electrical work.

(and I'm happy to say that that goo.gl link has been accessed over 1,600 times since the middle of this year, so there are at least a few more Australians knowledgeable about DIY electrical wiring, even if they are not legally allowed to do it.)

[Schtoo]

1. Standard double GPO $24 (which can be bought for less than $10)
2. 2.5mm T&E $5 per metre (you buy a 100m reel for $100)
3. 16A Residual Circuit Breaker $80 (you can buy them for $25)

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but the last time I actually bought the stuff in your list they were $10 for Clipsal 2000 DGPO, $0.80 metre for standard 2.5 T&E and the residential CB I don't know.

However, my prices were piggy backed to my work, and we often bought enough stuff to make the manufacturers ask us to please give them some warning. I do know our cable was 80% off trade list, and bakelite was as cheap as anyone was getting for genuine Clipsal gear, and we wouldn't use anything else (unless we'd actually run Clipsal out of the stuff, then we'd use HPM).

I did some work with another sparky on the weekends, and he threatened to drag me into the wholesalers and have me put my name down while he cleaned the place out and paying cash so there was no loose ends. Our boss would let us buy anything under the company name, but if it was for us we just paid cash on the spot.

I suppose the point to consider here is that yes, it is possible to get pretty deep discounts on sparky stuff, but you've got to be going through a heck of a lot of gear to get those fabled 'cheap!' prices. The average guy with a van and a kid helping doesn't get stuff all that cheap, and if they do, likely it's cheap gear.

As far as you guys doing your own electrical work, unless you have an actual license, you can do as mentioned by Mr. Splinter, change a light bulb and re-wire a fuse. Otherwise you're not supposed to be touching it. I have no thoughts one way or the other (I do have a license, still!) but the fact you can buy electrical gear anywhere always kind of surprised me. If regular folk aren't supposed to be doing it, why can they buy the forbidden fruit so easily?

Just as a side note, I went into a wholesalers a few years ago, in plain clothes and asked for a box of outlets and some cable for some work my dad needed doing. They almost didn't serve me because I didn't look the part and they'd just stopped selling to the public because of some liability thing.

Just for what it's worth.

Stu.

[gordonwindeyer]

Thanks to all for you inputs.
NCArcher is right, we did seem to stray from the original question and I thank you for pointing that out.
However, NCArcher did also stray from what I originally said. I had not decided to not pay the asking price for the materials (although I had questioned it). Furthermore, because I didn't obtain a quote in the first place (I will most likely do so next time!), I do not think I am necessarily obliged to pay whatever is asked. That amounts to writing an open cheque!
If the electrician charged me $100 for the standard GPO fitting (which probably cost him $10), and his labour at $80 ph and the cable at $20 per metre etc, etc, I would definitely object.
Since no-one has really come up with comments which provide me with a worthwhile way of taking him to task over what I definitely regard as rip-off materials pricing, I have decided I am not going to have an argument over the $1k of what I regard as excessive markups. I have already paid him $3.6k and will now pay the extra amount.
That is after he checks what is suspect is a live, unterminated wire awaiting a final GPO once the kitchen work is completed. And, I will be getting another electrician to do the final (and further) work.
I know $80ph is market for this work, but I am not prepared to bulk that up by paying 3 times what the materials can be readily bought at. I regard that as a sneaky way of overcharging me.
Having said all that, again, thanks for all your comments.

Regards

Gordon

[nev25]

Check the goo.gl link I posted a few replies ago.

It's a 50-odd page document that contains all the knowledge and information that the New Zealand electrical regulator requires NZ'ers to know so they can undertake their own electrical wiring. There's your officially sanctioned 'road rules and training' for simple domestic electrical work.

(and I'm happy to say that that goo.gl link has been accessed over 1,600 times since the middle of this year, so there are at least a few more Australians knowledgeable about DIY electrical wiring, even if they are not legally allowed to do it.)

As much as I don't want to enter into this augment

If this DIY thing was to happen it would have to be right across the board
I mean all trades
As an electrical contractor and a "A"Grade electrician I recently rang up the Plumbers Industry Board (Victorians Plumbers Regulatory Authority) and asked if it was possible for me to get a roofing ticket as at time we have to remove a roof sheet or tiles as part of our work (In which we are suppose to get a plumber to do)
I even offered to do any course that was required.

The reply I got was
"If anyone can get such a license there would be no point in an Apprenticeship?????"

[nev25]

Thanks to all for you inputs.
NCArcher is right, we did seem to stray from the original question and I thank you for pointing that out.
However, NCArcher did also stray from what I originally said. I had not decided to not pay the asking price for the materials (although I had questioned it). Furthermore, because I didn't obtain a quote in the first place (I will most likely do so next time!), I do not think I am necessarily obliged to pay whatever is asked. That amounts to writing an open cheque!
If the electrician charged me $100 for the standard GPO fitting (which probably cost him $10), and his labour at $80 ph and the cable at $20 per metre etc, etc, I would definitely object.
Since no-one has really come up with comments which provide me with a worthwhile way of taking him to task over what I definitely regard as rip-off materials pricing, I have decided I am not going to have an argument over the $1k of what I regard as excessive markups. I have already paid him $3.6k and will now pay the extra amount.
That is after he checks what is suspect is a live, unterminated wire awaiting a final GPO once the kitchen work is completed. And, I will be getting another electrician to do the final (and further) work.
I know $80ph is market for this work, but I am not prepared to bulk that up by paying 3 times what the materials can be readily bought at. I regard that as a sneaky way of overcharging me.
Having said all that, again, thanks for all your comments.

Regards

Gordon

I'm wondering where you are getting your prices from
Not saying you are wrong but one thing to remember is at the end of the day a tradesman is responsible for what is installed
Install cheap crap (and there's a lot of it around) and it doesn't last long
Pay for the good stuff and it lasts (motor Mechanics are a classic example of this)

You pay for what you get

All trades mark up prices that's the advantage of buying trade
Just like shops buy Wholesale and sell retail

Not saying its right or wrong just how it is

[Cliff Rogers]

My understanding is that while a registered electrician is required for all new wiring installations, anyone can do a like for like replacement. If a light switch fails you can replace it with a similar switch, but cannot change it over for, say, a dimmer switch. Of course I could be 100% wrong about this. The rules are probably different from state to state just to complicate things further.

That is in Pomgolia & maybe NZ, not Oz.

You can do the work under the supervision/direction/instruction of a licenced person & have it inspected by them & then it is their neck that is on the line if anything goes wrong.

Insurance companies WILL check these things if there is a claim.

[Cliff Rogers]

Back to the original question... the price of the parts does seem a bit high.... even for the 'good' stuff.

It happens in other trades too, the most glaring one that I can think of is the price that mechanical service centres charge for oil that they buy in bulk HEAPS cheaper than what Joe Blogs can buy it for in small plastic containers at the supermarket yet the supermarket oil (same brand as the sticker they wack on the windscreen) is cheaper.

[Grumpy John]

Thanks to all who corrected my understanding of the wiring regs in Oz. I've obviously been watching too many Pommy reno shows on the Lifestyle Chanel .

[Bushmiller]

I did make the comment a while back in another thread that I believed Australia was over regulated. The reply was that we are the same as everybody else.

I don't think that is quite true.

Regards
Paul

[Master Splinter]

The reply was that we are the same as everybody else.

I don't think that is quite true.

Regards
Paul

It's most certainly not true, and the same old arguments (it makes everyone in Australia safer) have no evidence to support that base; in fact with tragedies like the insulation installation debacle you could say the lack of availability of information and instruction on mains wiring systems has actually lead to deaths.