A comparison of three "Tung" Oils

[Dengue]

the mind boggles

[LGS]

Hi Chappy,

I don't think a floor would be the kind of normal wear and tear this finish could handle. I think I'd like something a bit sturdier for that.

Regards,

Rob

[soundman]

One test you may want to try is the standard adhesion test.

take a sharp blade and scribe an "X" being sure it goes thru the full depth of the finish.

then apply standard packing tape to a clean dewaxed surface, rubb the tape down well and then pull it off.

A realy good finish should not peel anything off and no finish should be missing from the surface and none should be seen on the packing tape.

cheers

[Stewie D]

More and more people are using Tung Oil on their timber floors over poly.
We did a large extension for clients nearly eighteen years ago and the brushbox floor was sanded and oiled by a guy who recommended it. Three coats of the oil all up.
#Now the client says the best thing about it is that once every nine months to a year or whenever the floor starts to look a bit "tired " or scratched she pulls all the furniture and carpet square over to one side of the room, does a quick vacuum then a coat of acrylic sealer with a mop. Lets it dry for three hours then does the other side.
I last saw that floor about a year ago and it looks as good as the day it went down.

Stewie

[soundman]

We now have more than a full generation of people who don't know what a polished floor is.

In my childhood, electric houshold scrubber polishers where a common item, My mother used to polish out kitchen lino and the wodden floor in our lounge about once a fortnight or maybe let it go to once a month....we had a ploisher in our house before we had a vacuum cleaner

In between times, a once over with an oil mop would pick up any fine dust left behind by the broom and leave behind a fast beautifull shine.

Most people would not know what an oil mop was these days.

People have opted for "easy care finishes" which translates to a thick coat of polly, which may be great in the short term, but after only a couple of years it can look very shabby with the only alternative to sand and recoat......even if you have a pedantic home owner who goes balistic if anybody dares come in their house with "dirty boots" on.

Back in the day, tung oil whas the choice of those who could afford it and where prepared to make a little effort to have a floor that looked fabulous year after year.

3, 4 or 5 coats of tung oil applied over a week would yeild a fabulous hard gloss, particuarly if burnished in with a felt pad on a polisher.
The home owner would then polish it with wax every week, fortnight or month, which would leave it GLEAMING, GLEAMING, GLEAMING.

A once over with an oil mop every couple of days would keep it that way.

After the floor had copped a lot of wear...or just as a matter of yearly routine in the fancy houses...all that was needed was a scrub with kerro to get rid of the wax and another coat of tung oil was burnished in with the polisher and a felt pad.
Mostly the floor could be back in service next day.

There are floors in some of the great houses that have had this sort of treatment for decades or more and the depth and sheen can be stunning.

These "easy care finishes", are realy a short term thing and simply delay a whole lot of hard work.

I have seen floors that have never seen anything but parifin wax, look stunning and no matter what happens, you can fix it with a little more wax and a polisher.

Polyeurathane....pha.

cheers

[Drillit]

Hi Jill,

In this experiment, it was as good as the Pure Tung Oil and the Hard Burnishing Oil and maybe a little better than the Wattyl. The burnishing gives it more lustre than I have seen previously. I'd be very happy to use it in place of the Wattyl.

Here's a comparison of (1) China Wood, (2) Wattyl Teak and (3) Liberon Pure Tung Oil.
One thing about the China Wood and the Liberon. Both are names for Tung Oil, just depends on where the nuts were collected. China or South America.
Out of the can, the Liberon was very thick. Liberon suggest diluting up to 50% with White Spirit (White Oil I think) I suspect that the China Wood has already been diluted. At some stage in the very near future (today or tomorrow) I will try doing double dilutions of the Liberon down to 50%, 25% and 12.5% oil with White Spirit and see what happens. If, as I suspect, the oil will happily still present great resolution at 50%. a 500ml can will effectively cost you $17.50!!! And last twice as long as other Oils. Excellent! If it works at 25% even better!!

Regards,

Rob

Hello Rob,
I have found that pure Tung Oil (100%) breaks down best with Pure Turpentine (Not mineral turps) and you can also add a smidgen of a drying agent, like terebine, if you wish . The Danish/Scandinavian/Burnishing Oils as I recall contain some linseed oil. I guess some more than others.The good thing about pure Tung Oil is that it is safe on products that will have food on them - e.g salad bowls, chopping boards, etc in my experience. Overall though a very interesting analysis, so thanks for that. Drillit.

[soundman]

Im sorry there is still debate as to tung oil being considered "food safe", it certainly is not if it has metalic driers added.

I know various people are claimimg that it is "food safe", but under what circumstances ( dry contact, wet contact, continuous immersion, hot or cold, pH ballanced or not, containing alcahol or not), there realy are very few finish products that are truly "food safe".

I know some claim "food safe when cured" but when some manufacturers state that it may take 30 or 90 days for tung oil to fully cure in some situations.......so did you leave that bowl 3 months before you put a salad in it.

When it is known the every part of the Tung tree is poisonous especially the nuts which the oil is made from...one needs to know a bit more before trusting it.

Regardless of the general food safety debate, there may certainly be issues associated with those having nut allergies and food that may have been in contact with a tung oil finish.
Some of these people can go into alaphalixis with the slightest traces of nuts.

Yeh safer not.

To the matter of pure turpentine or gum terpentine......while it may have legendary status in some circles, it is a product to avoid and is completly unnecessary.....

Gum terpentine contains a few very nasty chemicals that have both long and short term effects (similar to petrol sniffing)and some people react very badly to it indeed.

BTW, don't get Neil ( the owner of this forum and a polish manufacturer) started on the gum terpentine issue, he will leave you with the message in no uncertain terms that it is an unnecessary product and one to avoid..

Anybody who has good hard information on the food safety of tung oil I would be very interested to see.

Not MSDS, because they never reveal all and only deal with the product as shipped and used.
Not manufacturers claims, because they can claim anything and very rarely give detail
Not magasine articles, because they are very rarely well reserached and mostly depend on manufacturer claims.
Not research about feeding tung oil to chickens, because birds will tolerate all sorts of rubbish that can kill humans.

Serious detailed information about how tung oil behaves on food surfaces.

cheers

[LGS]

Soundman, Just couple of things. You picked me up on a point of english, so..
Really is the way that you spell the word
Alaphalaxis doesn't exist. Anaphalaxis does and is the Allergenic response you were looking for.

I have to ask a question regarding Food Safety and by default Nut allergic response.
Why would a company like Organoil claim that their Hard Burnishing Oil is food safe, if they cannot defend themselves against litigation. It doesn't make sense. I suggest that the onus is on you to provide proof that Tung Oil is in fact not food safe, or responsible for allergenic responses.

Regards,

Rob

[jimbur]

Soundman, Just couple of things. You picked me up on a point of english, so..
Really is the way that you spell the word
Alaphalaxis doesn't exist. Anaphalaxis does and is the Allergenic response you were looking for.

Rob

You're both wrong, try anaphylaxis

Cheers,
Jim

[LGS]

I hate that. You'd reckon all those years of Allergy study would still work. Bugger!

[jimbur]

I hate that. You'd reckon all those years of Allergy study would still work. Bugger!

Couldn't resist it as I'm meant to be hanging curtains and not at ease with the world.

Cheers,
Jim

[soundman]

If you want to correct people for spelling, go teach english, and stop posting on forums because frankly nobody cares.

On the matter of public and products liability don't ever assume a manufacturer, particularly an american manufacturer of anything is certain their product is 100%.
Othewise Ford would never have let the Edsel get past the drawing board, nor would thay have let a cetain firestone tyre be fitted to F series, nor would thalidamide ever been used for morning sickness and tobacco companies would have closed up shop from the goodness of their heart decades ago.

If you believe everything a manaufacturer says at face value and not seek other information, you are leaving yourself wide open for disapointment or worse.

"Food safe" is one of those vague terms like "waterproof" and "sealed" and "lifetime guarantee".

Not worth the electronic ether they are written on.

Pobably 90% of the finish products out there would be "safe" to serve a sandwedge on or to eat chips out of, but as soon as you introduce liquids especially acids (like tomato sauce & citris juce), oils and alcahol the game changes....make them hot and it changes again.

Then we have the issue of simply putting food in or on something...that changes as soon as we start using utensils like knives and forks.

Food safety and woodwork is a very live issue and one soo many people are far too complacent about.

As far as i know there are only 4 finishes that can be relied upon to be 100% food safe, because in their finished form they are edible......Parifin oil, parifin wax, shelac and U beaut food safe finish.
Note that I have left beeswax out, because some people are allergic to that otherwise it is fine too.


cheers

[LGS]

OK. So 90% of finishes are safe to serve food from, but if we prepare food on them, then we need to know exactly how the food components are going to react chemically with the finish, correct?
Show me some proof, words are as you say "not worth the electronic ether they're written on".
FYI, I'm really not that interested, but vague obliques at things that may exist are not constructive.

Rob

[LGS]

Never mind. Here's some reading which presents both sides of the discussion. A man who thinks he's allergic to Tung Oil, but hasn't proved it yet and a comprehensive run down on Tung Oil and its properties from "The Woodworks Book and Tool Company, Sydney."

http://whatallergy.com/2011-11/tungoil

Pure tung oil: the world's finest natural wood finish - The Wood Works Book & Tool Co.

Regards,

Rob

[soundman]

Sorry neither of those articles are of any use and show no depth of discussion in the matter what so ever.

The statement that "all parts of the tung tree are toxic especially the nuts" is far from vague.

Following that anybody claimimg that the product derived from tung nuts is food safe holds the onus of proof and the responsibility for the detail....detail that none of them seem to supply.

Parifin oil, parifin wax and shelac ( bees wax to possibly) are all long established and approved food additives and are 100% safe to eat in fact we have all quite possibly done so, they do not go rancid, taint food or provide food for or promote pathogens...very few other " food safe finishes" can make the same claim.

The statement that the product is "non hasardous" simply means that is is not dangerous to handle or transport.

The statements in MSDS and other places saying that the oil "is not edible" means what?

There are plenty of people making wooden food related items out of timber they should not and finishing them with stuff they probably should not........are people getting ill...well we simply do not know, because, if they do get ill they do not consider looking at the wooden item.
As with many food hygeen issues, people often do not relate the illness to the cause.


cheers