Good onya Matty :(

[Gumby]

If you had to pick one of them to bowl to save your life, it's no contest. Warnie.

That guy has won more tests for Australia than MacGill ever could.

[CameronPotter]

That guy has won more tests for Australia than MacGill ever could.

Unless MacGill was given an even chance...

(How is this for hijacking a thread!!)

[silentC]

Murali is a chucker!!!

Yes, Warnie has won more tests for Australia but MacGill hasn't been given the same chances. It's like being a wicket keeper while Gilly is there. You get a run when he's injured or resting and that's it. How do you prove yourself in one match? All they can look at is performance in State matches.

One day Gilly will retire and someone else will have to step up. Same with Warnie. Will he retire in time for MacGill to have a good go at it? They are more or less contemporaries.

[Gumby]

Yes, Warnie has won more tests for Australia but MacGill hasn't been given the same chances. .

Flawed argument. If you follow that logic, maybe I could have won a few tests for Australia too, if only they gave me the chance.

(although, how you straighten a bendy plasticene arm would be an interesting exercise)

[CameronPotter]

Ahhh, but a legal chucker - who you could argue has changed the game even more than Warnie as he forced rule changes!

Mind you, if you say that Murali is a chucker, then so is Brett Lee as well as many other bowlers...

I don't reckon that MacGill will get a decent run as they are pretty much contemporaries. Dan Cullen will be the next spinner and the young guy from Qld will be the next unfortunate spinner...

As you mention with Gilly, Haddin has had a rough run and he has done beautifully in his opportunities. And for that matter, Healy was held onto for a few years extra when Gilly was going mad in state cricket...

[CameronPotter]

Flawed argument. If you follow that logic, maybe I could have won a few tests for Australia too, if only they gave me the chance.

(although, how you straighten a bendy plasticene arm would be an interesting exercise)

Sorry Gumby, but I think you should probably get a state game before you apply to the Australians...

As for being flawed logic, not really. Your first comment was "more games that MacGill ever could" and that implies that MacGill couldn't have won those games. All proof indicates that there is a good chance that he could have (whilst not definite proof of course).

[DanP]

I'll cede you the stats, but I wouldn't say he completely outbowled him. I would be interested to see how MacGILL would go on a dead flat track.

I acknowledge that Warne is more proven and I also acknowledge that he had a great series against England - although I don't know how good the English are at playing spin.

MacGill was crap in the lead up games in England which is why he didn't get a run.

However, I do think that it is a bit tough that MacGill gets the rough end of the pineapple basically because Warnie got there first. I admit that Warne had a lot more control in his younger years than MacGill did (and still does - although MacGill has improved a LOT).

MacGILL does not get the rough end of the pineapple. The not so rough end maybe, but not the rough end. Warne is a better bowler and will finish his career with between 800 and 1000 wickets IMO. I don't think MacGILL would have got there. Something we will never know I guess.

As for "undoubtedly" the best spin bowler in the world, I reckon Murali might have a thing or two to say about that. He has also been tested on the various grounds around the world and his stats hold up very well as well. Again, there is an argument that he also MAINLY plays on spin friendly pitches against weaker teams, but he has had to play against Australia, Warne hasn't... Also, there often seems to be the arguments as to why Warne is the best ever and they usually involve, "Yes, but..."

Yes, but...
I've got a few things to say about Murali.

1. He is a chucker.
2. The ICB didn't know what to do with him and the whole "I can't straighten my arm" thing so they changed the rules to suit him.
3. The vast majority of his wickets are on the sub continent where nearly every pitch is a spinners heaven.
4. He is a chucker.
5. He's still not as good as Warne.

Think where Warne would be at now if he didn't have a year off. 800 wickets?

Dan

[silentC]

And he's a chucker....

[silentC]

Flawed argument. If you follow that logic, maybe I could have won a few tests for Australia too, if only they gave me the chance.

(although, how you straighten a bendy plasticene arm would be an interesting exercise)

Maybe you could have. Did you ever try out for the team? No? Then how do you know

[CameronPotter]

Ok. I will also cede the fact that MacGill on a flat track MAY be absolutely brutalised... Although he has pretty good figures on Bellerive which is commonly acknowledged as a batter's paradise.

I also agree that his time in England wasn't up to scratch which is one of the reasons he didn't get a game, but there are many players who play a lot better in the "real thing" than in tour matches - although I don't think that shows a particularly strong character.

As for Murali - I won't argue that he bends his arm, but so do many fast bowlers. I would actually like it handed back to the umpires and if the ICC doesn't like an umpire's call they can remove them from the panel. That way you avoid all of this what angle can they use and instead go with, if you can see it straighten - ping them.

As for Warnie's "break" he came back bowling better than he was when he left. But, he would have picked up a few extra wickets along the way. I will say that Warne is clearly a very special bowler though, if only for his ability to control a viciously spinning delivery - something that was not even considered likely in previous leg spinning history.

Funnily enough, I thought that his one day record was probably the most impressive things about his game - but he gave that up. I am DEFINITELY willing to admit that he is streets ahead of the next spin bowler in that form of the game (although I do like Hoggie, who I also feel is sometimes a little hard done by).

[craigb]

Perhaps we should have a poll.

I'm a big fan of Stewies work but Warne is undoubtedly the better bowler.

It's just Stew's misfortune to be on the scene at the same time as Warne.

If Warne hadn't been around then who knows?

Where was Stewie in '93 or '94 when Warne was at the top of his game and basically unplayable by the majority of the worlds best batters?

Mind you, Stewie has a wrong 'un which is more than Warnie can say.

[CameronPotter]

Actually, Stewie came late to spin bowling and started off as a reasonably unsuccessful fast bowler... It took him quite a while to get control of his massive rip. However, if Warnie wasn't around making his lack of control look bad, it is also possible that MacGill wouldn't have really worked on control that much... :confused:

[bitingmidge]

But then again Pete, he is your long lost love child

and he's great to cuddle...

P

[CameronPotter]

Plenty of him eh Midge?

[ss_11000]

i'm not into stats but i rekon they both have there days and warnie is better on that day. macgill is still a good spinner though.