Using shipping container as foundation?

[ian]

I’ve been looking on the internet for information but unfortunately when you search for “using a shipping container for a foundation” it shows you hundreds of websites on how to build a foundation FOR a shipping container home, not using it as the foundation… So, can anyone please comment on any of the following (any ideas, rules, regulations that you know about, someone who has done it, obstacles you can envisage – literally anything you can think of):

I want to build a kit home – it is the steel frame variety. When they sell it to you, they don’t include the foundations – that is up to you. The options so far have been a concrete foundation, or piers and piles (either steel or wood).

My idea is to buy two 40ft shipping containers, then bury them on the site, put steel beams across the top, the same as you would if you had a conventional foundation, and then put the house on top. The steel beams would be bolted to the shipping containers. I’m not sure at this point, but it could also be a good idea to cut a hole in the top, put a small staircase in and use it as a wine cellar or similar type storage.

Any reasons why this wouldn’t work? Structural strength of the containers? Rust issues if they’re buried? And if so, could you wrap them in damp seal? Ground water, council approval, or any other things I should be considering?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but

do you have rocks in your head or money to burn?

What you want to do is feasible but heinously expensive.

Your containers would need properly engineered foundations, water proofing, a ground water extraction system to stop the containers floating -- being elevated doesn't excuse you from the flotation problem -- properly engineered beams (or columns and beams) to support the house slab, corrosion protection, ventilation, the list goes on.
I know of no engineer who would touch the idea with anything less than a brand new container, and even then they would most probably specify a custom built one.
and I haven't mentioned the engineer's fee which is likely to be in the mid to high 5 figures. Unlike most other professionals, engineers remain liable for their design work for many years after they die and have to buy insurance to cover them.

If a slab on ground is not a viable option for your site, look at bored concrete piles.

If you want to add a cellar, elevate the slab, or extend the piles above grade to create a space under the house, like what was done with Queenslanders.

[KBs PensNmore]

Kryn

That's interesting. How has he coped with the problem of pressure on the walls and negativity from the council? Also how did he put the bitumen on the underside? Did he have it up in the air on supports?

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,
As far as I know, he didn't do anything to it, as the sides were about 75mm deep and about 200 mm wide, so he probably figured that would be more than strong enough.
Council???? He said "What they don't know, won't hurt them"
To get to the underside, he just tipped it on it's side, when you've a mate with access to earthmoving gear, it's easy.
Kryn

[chris0375]

Hi Paul,
As far as I know, he didn't do anything to it, as the sides were about 75mm deep and about 200 mm wide, so he probably figured that would be more than strong enough.

What are those dimensions of?

Containers are not strong at all. It hasn't crushed yet but there are plenty that do.

[BobL]

The following is a demonstration of problems with containers when even small holes are cut into them. I purchased a used 20ft container that I wanted to use as a shed to store timber in and knowing how hot they can get decided to cut two 300mm diameter holes in the topp to add two whirlybird fans and then cut 4 150 x 300 mm holes on the sides down near the floor. The holes in the top were along the length wise midline spaced ~1/3rd apart.

When I climbed up onto the top to cut the holes the container sounded and felt firm but after I cut the holes the container top did not feel as solid and was a lot more springy than it did before. The area around the holes also bowed inwards by about 50mm meaning that a lot of rainwater pooled around the whirlybirds and Even though I had bent the lips of the holes upwards about 25 m rainwater came into the container and it started to rust around where the water pooled.

After several floods eventually I jacked the area up around each hole with two Acro props so that the bow popped out the other way and then welded a full container width length of 50 x 50 x 5 mm angle in place inside up against the roof with a couple of spacers either side of the holes to maintain the upwards bow.

[Bushmiller]

Bob

I saw the same type of problem when converting the studio. I was cutting out very large areas for three windows down on of the long sides. Despite the steel being quite thick ( can't quite remember off the top of my head but around 2mm) the sides popped out of shape and flopped about. This was quite easily rectified when I framed up the openings for the windows and doors with timber and introduced studs and plates.They all improved rigidity. I also lined the studio with VJ sheeting. More rigidity.

I would be interested to hear Simplicity's experience on this aspect.

I think it is readily resolved as shipping containers are used commonly now for offices, homes and other accommodation. However, they are not pressure vessels! The corner uprights are massive and built to withstand considerable compressive loads.

The rest of the container is for containment , weather proofing and vermin proofing all of which they do very well.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Container roofs are designed with a slight curvature to them
So they shed water

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi Chris,
Those measurements are of the Z section of the sides, being 75mm high and 200 mm long.

[ian]

Hi Paul

I think people need to be very careful extending this observation

I was cutting out very large areas for three windows down on of the long sides. Despite the steel being quite thick ( can't quite remember off the top of my head but around 2mm) the sides popped out of shape and flopped about.

I think it is readily resolved as shipping containers are used commonly now for offices, homes and other accommodation. However, they are not pressure vessels! The corner uprights are massive and built to withstand considerable compressive loads.

to used shipping containers.

A business building transportable offices and accommodation into the form of a shipping container -- 20 or 40ft long, 8ft wide, 8'6" high, with reinforced corners -- will most likely be making custom sides containing the reinforcing necessary to prevent teh walls flopping about.



As an aside, 2mm steel is quite thin and floppy
even 20mm plate "flops" a bit when the sheets are 12m long

[Bushmiller]

Ian

I take your point about my experience being from second hand containers. In fact I should point out that the type of containers that are commonly on the market for land use are normally of a quality that will not pass certification for shipping any more.

I have no knowledge one way or the other of custom made sides for housing.

The sides of the container gain their rigidity because of the profile which is deep. My point about the thickness of the steel is that it is considerably thicker than roofing steel for example (about four time thicker). The only reason roofing iron is strong enough to span a distance is because of the profile.

Car bodies have dips and folds in them for the same reason. Styling is actually a secondary consideration.

I don't know if you have ever noticed but the profile of the back wall of a shipping container is different to the sides. It appears to be a more rigid section.

Regards
Paul

[OldGrain]

https://www.facebook.com/thewoodwork...type=3&theater

A little bit different.

[Bushmiller]

OG

Nice. Earth bermed too. very adventurous.

Regards
Paul