Help! This goes from bad to worse!!!! Warpe Weatherboards.

[mic-d]

I think what's happened is the paint has sealed one side of the board and with the high temperatures the back has dried and shrunk, causing the cupping. The only way to stop that would have been to paint both sides or stack them so there was no airflow and perhaps mist them if the weather was so hot. If you can't stop one side drying out then it's virtually impossible to stop this kind of wood movement by stacking. You could try wetting the backside of one board and laying it under some plastic, maybe even in the sun. Keep an eye on it during the day and if the cup goes, paint the bastard. Then repeat a few hundred times.
I agree you can't really blame the builder.

Cheers
Michael

[Cobber]

Has the weatherboard been primed though? I thought if it had been primed then this sort of thing wouldnt happen?

[Cobber]

Is there a difference between a weatherboard that has been pre-primed to one that has a preservative on it or has been treated?

[Sigidi]

Cobber,

I hate to say it, but weatherboards are thin, they are cut from a material which has a radial grain, you will find if you look at the cross section of each board, there will be more growth rings evident on one face and you will soon see a relationship between how many growth rings are on a face and which way the boards cupped.

Basically, my experience with cutting my own weatherboards (quite a few now) stack them as they come out of the log while cutting, strap the stack as soon as you finish adding more boards to it and only unstrap it when the boards are to be nailed to a frame.

AS said before any peice of green timber left to it's own devices will move, warp twist, cup; the thing is to restrict it in some way. Painting them and leaving them out to their own devices, will allow the boards to do what they did. Even if you hadn't painted them but did everything esle you did, they would have gone.

Take decking for example, you don't get your decking out and lay it loose on your deck to acclimatise for a day or so before you put it down, it will bugger off all over the place on you. Flooring is a differnt matter as the rules regarding sale of flooring state it must be a minimum moisture content, decking, weatherboards, structural timber are not subject to these rules regarding moisture.

I guess I'm saying, the paint isn't so much the issue, the nature of wood is. Now mind you, if your specification is contrary to what was supplied, then it's either builder or supplier at fault and that becomes a difficult thing to establish; builder will say he orderd what was specified, supplier is likely to say he orderd what he received, see what I mean?

First thing I would be doing is finding out if the product you received was what was specified, then take it from there.

Hope this helps

[Cobber]

The guy at Bunnings tells me to spray the unpainted side of the weatherboards and then stack them up tightly on top of each other and the cupping should eventually go out of them.

What do you think about this? Will it work?

[mic-d]

The guy at Bunnings tells me to spray the unpainted side of the weatherboards and then stack them up tightly on top of each other and the cupping should eventually go out of them.

What do you think about this? Will it work?

Spray them with what? Paint, water? As I said before try wet it wrap it in plastic and try that. If it's contraction from drying out and it is reversible, this may work. I don't think any of us will "Know" until you try it and tell us. We're just full of good ideas, but they may be a load of bollocks! Good luck

Cheers
Michael

[ausdesign]

Bit hard to tell from the pic's but they do look like standard baltic pine weatherboards to my weary eyes.
A couple of observations - looking at the growth rings - if they were left out to dry in the sun for a period of time then they will invariably cup whether undercoated all round, painted on one face or painted on all.
Will they flatten out - possibly marginally, but the board shown has cupped inwards on the face & to my mind when nailed home there will be pressure at the middle of the board from the stud, possibly causing splitting.
This is not an unusual occurance with baltic or cedar w'boards.
Sorry 'cobber' probably not providing any positive help here.

[Cobber]

Ausdesign, you are correct they are baltic pine...bought at Bunnings I believe.

Spoke to the www.timber.net.au guy today.

He said bring them inside if you can and stack them properly and leave them there for a while. I cant bring them inside though so he said to stack them with the cupped end facing up.

Dont know what to do yet but will try something on the weekend and see how I go. The way I see it I have nothing to lose.

Am going to speak to these guys tomorrow and see what they say first http://www.timber.org.au/

Cobber

[Cobber]

Mic-d might try yours out as well....hopefully i get some sun this weekend.

[Sigidi]

Hey Cobber,

the only thing I feel can be done, is to revesre the different moisture loss in the boards. Easier said than done.

FIrst of all, look closely at your boards, establish which side 'lost' the moisture to create the cup, then add a mist of water to it (too much will cause fungus/mold, too little will produce no difference to your boards, the right amount will give you the best chance of getting them back) Then stck them in a very carefully stacked pile, which you will add ratchet straps to every 300mm. Orientate the boards in such a way that the pressure added by the rathcet straps will 'compress' the cup out of your boards, but not give an unblalanced pile (hope this makes sense, a lot harder to write than do) then the last step weight the stack with something like comcrete step treads or pavers etc, leaving the rathcet straps free to re-tension. Put as much weight onto the stack as you can get your hands on. Keep the stack out of the sun, if you need to put a trap over the top of it, than also add shadecloth to 3 sides.


After a week remove one side of shadecloth, not hte opposite side to the one already missing, each week thereafter remove one side, and re-tension the straps each week.

No guarantee's ,but unless you have one of those ellusive timber straightener/stretchers and thickeners, not much else you can do

[ausdesign]

How many meters are we talking about Cobber ?

[Cobber]

I reckon am looking at probably 300 - 400 metres as an estimate. It puts the budget way out especially with all the rest of the stuff thats happened.

You would think the builder would said something...they were the ones that suggested painting them....so in my opinion should share the blame.

[ian]

My builder told me I can paint my weatherboards before they put them up. On the variation notes signed by the builder and myself it says "Keep Clients informed on painting situation for weatherboards and windows...give whole weekend to paint."

The weatherboards were dropped off and I started painting the weekend b4 last with the builders approval....finished them last weekend...2 coats of dulux weathershield on one side. The short story is I got a call today saying the weatherboards have been warped/cupped. It was 30 deg in Melb yesterday and it then changed later to cold and rainy and I think this caused the warping.

The builder says it was caused through painting one side of them only and because they were taken out of their stack and not stacked properly.
What would have caused the weatherboards to warp? The weather?

Who is at fault here...they told me i can paint them? I assume this hasnt happened to them before otherwise they wouldnt have allowed me to paint them.

Cobber

I reckon am looking at probably 300 - 400 metres as an estimate. It puts the budget way out especially with all the rest of the stuff thats happened.

You would think the builder would said something...they were the ones that suggested painting them....so in my opinion should share the blame.

Cobber,
I can't really add much to what's already been said re the warping, however on the contract issue...

has the builder been contracted to paint the finished work or was it intended that you would do so once the builder was finished? your tale reads as though your intention is that you will do the painting yourself, so what follows is based on this premis.
you've undertaken to do the painting, ergo you are assumed to know what you're doing with a paint brush. so the warping problem is largely yours not the builder's

you say: "My builder told me I can paint my weatherboards before they put them up" contracturally this does not translate to "my builder told me to paint the weather boards" it was your decision to paint, ergo the problem is yours.

your variation says: "Keep Clients informed on painting situation for weatherboards and windows...give whole weekend to paint" to me this reads — the builder allowed you a reasonable period of time to paint the boards if you wanted to

as to what was supplied, you're unlikely to get much joy here. Was the contract intent that the builder supply you with primed boards so that you could paint them? or was the intent to source pre-primed boards so that you only had to apply the top coats? if the later, the supply of unprimed boards (from the photo your boards look unprimed) just meant more painting for you and a possible downwards cost adjust to the final price.

as to the builder's "approval" to paint, I'd interpret this as the builder saying "you will not be in the way if you paint the boards now"

as to restacking, if there's a "right" and "wrong" way to stack the boards and you've stacked them the wrong way, the problem's yours

sorry I'm not being more positive in attributing blame to the builder.


Your real question is — were to from here?
my advice is don't accept responsibility and don't try to lay the blame with the builder.
Instead work with him to reach a solution.
maybe wetting the unpainted side and weights will reduce the warping enough to allow the boards to be used. It's certainly worth a try

Start discussing the cost impact, if any, and how this might be minimised — the contractors I deal with would already be talking of an extra because they are being delayed while the problem is sorted out.

can other parts of the work proceed while the problem is sorted?


ian

[Sigidi]

Ian, well put

I've been reading this thread with worry that Cobber will take most of this advice back to his builder and the result will be Cobber losses a builder and gets an unfinished extension.

Your advice with how to carry on is probably the best way of getting along with the job at minimal extra cost if any at all.

My previous advice regarding the reduction of the cupping is the only way I have found to try and get anything back from a cranky board. It is time consuming, it sounds like a lot of work, it does seem over the top, but I know if those boards have any chance of regaining a semblance of their original shape, then that's all there is for it. Just to clarify and qualify my previous info, I'm a mobile sawmiller, I deal with customer expectations regarding 'quality' of green timber all the time, I have at times had great results in bringing back 36" wide 3" thick slabs of timber, as with anythign else on the forum, folkes ask for info/help and can take away from that help whatever they choose, just thought I'd say that I'm not making it up, it is from experience and results.

Cobber hopefully you can see where Ian is coming on, also I hope we don't see a new thread along the lines of "Builder buggered off - what can I do?"

Good luck mate - keep us updated.

[Cobber]

Ian and Sigidi thanks for your replies. I will try and not argue with the builder on this and may suggest shared blame to them (enough has been done already). This weekend I will try to fix them and see how I go.

The specifivation says to cladd with "pre-primed weatherboards". They wrote down on a variation they would give me a weekend to paint them (itsbeen 3 weeks and not all have gone up yet).

Ian how can I tell that these weatherboards are pre-primed? I assumed they were...they have a thin white coating on them.

If they are not pre-primed then I have a case on my hands.
cheers

Cobber