Wall paint disaster

[munruben]

Hi Bob and Jacksin,

The more and more I speak to people like yourselves and get more of an insight as to what their experiences are, the more I'm starting to wonder whether anyone nowadays knows the meaning of the word 'professional'!!!

And you are both right in saying that the tradies and specialised sales people (and i use that term loosely) are at fault also..

We have had this argument before. To employ a professional tredesman today (painter) costs around $60 an hour. Now to do the work the way you suggest is very time consuming and not many people can afford to employ someone at those prices for hours and hours of labour totaling hundreds of dollars to do the job professionally.
Tradesemen have to work according to the requirements and pocket of their customers and the customer usually wants the best job but at the cheapest price so a compromise has to be reached. We all know how the job Should be done but the customer can only afford so much and they usually opt for the quicker, cheaper job. False economy, I know but thats the way it is specially when putting a house on the market to sell, vendors just want a quick freshen up to make it look good for the would be buyers.
The best way to get the job you want is to do the work yourself or be prepared to spend big bucks.

[munruben]

BTW, the problem may not be due to poor workmanship, there can be an uderlying, natural problem with the brickwork. Bricks are prone to dampness and this does not alway show up in an inspection of the house. Bricks may be perfectly dry one day but weather conditions and atmospheric conditions can cause bricks to exude dampness under these conditions and yet be perfectly dry on other occasions when the conditions suit the bricks. Also bricks are forever moving and it can be movement that causes paint to crack or peel. Clay bricks actually continue to "grow" for some time after manufacture so you see it is not that easy to arrive at a conclusion as to what the problem is.

[bob w]

[QUOTE=munruben;633426]We have had this argument before. To employ a professional tredesman today (painter) costs around $60 an hour. Now to do the work the way you suggest is very time consuming and not many people can afford to employ someone at those prices for hours and hours of labour totaling hundreds of dollars to do the job professionally.
Tradesemen have to work according to the requirements and pocket of their customers and the customer usually wants the best job but at the cheapest price so a compromise has to be reached.

I will agree that the customer will at times restrict what a traddie can do by setting unrealistic price limitations. In the case of our daughter however she and hubbie settled on a design and then had 4 builders quote to construct without setting any limits. They then accepted the second most expensive price as the two cheaper builders left them feeling very unsure of their ability.
To my mind the builder should have ensured the painter followed the manufacturers recommendations which is to apply one sealer coat and two top coats. But both parties seem to feel the shortcut is acceptable. I'm sorry but as an ex traddie myself the best way to do a job is the correct way especially when you are putting your reputation on the line. When I priced a job I allowed for the work to be done properly and if the customer wanted a cheap job that demanded shoddy material or workmanship they could get someone else. I always had work and had very few call backs.
Cheers
Bob W

[Christopha]

Don't know if it's "tip" or not but when painting I get my sealer/undercoats tinted to the required wall colour. I am not suggesting that it take the place of a second coat of finish but it does assist with cover I find...

[madrat]

BOB, WHERE DO I FIND A TRADIE LIKE YOU??

I really don't think it was a case of brick work and weather conditions purely because of the 'result' of the overall appearance of the painting.

A 'professional' wouldn't paint the metal window frames or have their paint roller paint over the door frames ( I would like to think they wouldn't anyway). This is what makes me wonder whether it was the owner or an 'amateur' painter. Either way, it looks shocking!!

We discussed tinting the sealer, not to cheapskate (as god knows we just don't think that's worth it), but to assist with the overall coverage.

The advice we got from Dulux specialists was that it wasn't worth it as it would be too transparent to make a difference (at least in our case because we were doing so much prep work).

We were even told that an undercoat was not necessary after sealing and that we could put the colour on after sealing. However, we decided to go the whole hog and spend that little extra on undercoat. As it turns out, it was a good decision on our part.

It looks like we will get the first coat of colour on tomorrow, so time will tell.

In your case Bob with your daughter, with the cost of homes these days, I think it's an absolute disgrace for a tradie to charge as much as they do and provide a less than satisfactory and professional result.

My husband and I have no problem paying maybe that little extra to get a perfect result (and don't get me wrong, we are definitely not made of money). BUT WE WANT WHAT WE PAY FOR! And nowadays, you have to question and observe just about everyone's workmanship.

Obviously, she wanted it to be done right the first time and my hat goes off to her for being 'house proud' and sensible. Shame not more people are like that, professionals included.

I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to what you are happy with. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes what it acceptable to one person may not be acceptable to another.. and that's where the additional $$ come in to play (BEGRUDGINGLY).

Just out of curiosity Bob, if you don't mind me asking, what was the outcome with your daughter's place?

[bob w]

Don't know if it's "tip" or not but when painting I get my sealer/undercoats tinted to the required wall colour. I am not suggesting that it take the place of a second coat of finish but it does assist with cover I find...

This is a very good point you make. By tinting the sealer/undercoat it helps the first of the top coats to cover thereby making the second coat more even. This is especially useful when using a colour that has ochre tint as this seems to be a hard colour to use. Also when using red it helps if you get your undercaot tinted to a light grey or even a blue/grey. Our paint shop always suggests things like this when we buy our paint.
Cheers
Bob

[Metal Head]

Hi MRFIXIT,

I was very impressed by your paint finish? How did you get that "LOOK" Don't tell me you can buy strippy paint now?

Cheers
MH

[bob w]

Hi madrat,
There are plenty of good traddies out there but there are lots of baddies in between. I guess you just have to keep trying until you find one you trust. I dont mean you have to give them work just ask how they intend to do the job and if they can do it "cheaper". All you can do from there is gauge the answers and make your decision.
In our daughters case we went back to our paint shop and bought some Duralex Everclean and ceiling white and did the job again before they moved in. We then invited the builder around to see how much better it looked after being done properly. He was pretty humbled by the experience.
Good luck with your reno's. We did the same here, completly guttered the interior and relined with Gyprock (the original was old asbestos filled fibro) added 4 square (approx 40m2) had to have all new door jambs to accomodate the extra thickness in wall lining so used new doors,arch & skirts. new bathroom,new kitchen, new office and now you wouldn't know the place. As we did all but the electrical ourselves we also kept our sanity.
Cheers
Bob

[Gooner]

I have the same problem at the moment with the ceiling on a house we recently bought. It looks as though a previous coat (or 2... or 3...) has flaked away entirely and the previous owners simply painted over everything in an attempt to hide it. The stratergy worked relatively well, because I did not notice it too much when buying the house, but now I really notice it because I have carefully looked at it and cringed at the thought of stripping the entire ceiling.

The remaining paint seems to be adhering relatively well. Therefore, I am thinking of using a filler to remove the "step" between the different coats of paint and then using something like the Zinsser Peel Stop (sold at bunnings) to make sure it does not peel in future.

Anyone had any experience with the Zinsser Peel Stop?

Thanks.

[PhoenixP]

I also have paint flaking on the ceiling in the bathroom so i'll be following this thread for any advice or tips.

[madrat]

Thanks for your response Bob.

We finally got the colour on the walls on the weekend and the time and money spent on the prep was well worth it.

It didn't turn out perfect, but short of knocking the whole house down and rebuilding, it was so much better than what we expected!

Unfortunately, we had the new kitchen installed yesterday and the plumber 'gouged' a hole out of the new repaired and painted hallway with his clumsiness just walking through with tools!!

At least it didn't peel!! We will repair that one tonight!

We still have four more rooms to go, but I think now we might be on the right track at last.

I don't think I would be able to 'invite' the builder/owner/painter back, even if it was to show up his/her work.

I'm a little bit too fiesty and unforgiving for that, I'm afraid. You are a much bigger person than I am

As it turns out, the "Kitchen people" seemed to have short changed me on a kitchen bench that has been installed in two pieces instead of one.

I know that I can get that piece in one length, because the bench opposite the one in question is longer and in one piece. So that's my next tackle.....

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???

Thanks again for the feedback Bob. Appreciate it.

[Gooner]

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???

What did you undercoat it with?

[bob w]

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???

Thanks again for the feedback Bob. Appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

Hi Madrat
What brand & type of paint are you using? Another tip our paint shop has given us is that when painting previously unpainted plasterboard is use a GOOD quality sealer then either tint your ceiling white to an almost white like "winter white" or similar or add a little black tint to the paint to take away the patchy finish some ceiling whites can give. Apparently some brands already have black tint from the factory. Where do you buy your paint? They may give you a little tint to stir in and then apply one more coat.
Cheers
Bob

[madrat]

We undercoated with a primer,sealer,undercoat all in one (dulux or taubmans-sorry can't remember) and then painted with Dulux 'never miss' ceiling white (the one that goes on pink but dries white). I have used this one before in my Mum's house and never had a problem ??
We bought the paint from a Dulux Centre direct. My husband went back there yesterday and they suggested a sealer, but also advised to be careful as too many coats of paint can cause the ceiling to become 'heavy'.
Don't really want to risk doing again, if you know what i mean as if we have to go a sealer binder we will have to paint it again and who knows how many coats were on there previously to us taking ownership.
It might be something we may have to live with.
It is really only noticeable when natural light hits it, but then again we haven't got around to window treatments yet. This may make a difference??
I would rather patchiness than my ceiling falling in .

[honey_bee]

This is a very good point you make. By tinting the sealer/undercoat it helps the first of the top coats to cover thereby making the second coat more even. This is especially useful when using a colour that has ochre tint as this seems to be a hard colour to use. Also when using red it helps if you get your undercaot tinted to a light grey or even a blue/grey. Our paint shop always suggests things like this when we buy our paint.
Cheers
Bob

Hiya,
Am putting feelers out and finding threads on here about painting over wallpaper.
Would this be a good idea if the paper is boldy patterned, just to get better coverage?
Mel