electrical - is this legal?

[Barry_White]

When the PP is pushed back into the wall void there is the possibility that older wires will flex and break, possibly coming free AFTER the PP is screwed back to the wall. My home is 15yo and a recent reno disturbed a number of PPs. On one of them, the wires broke a number of times (about 3 times IIRC) and I was concerned I would have to rewire the entire run.

One of the problems of wires breaking off is caused by the sparky when he strips the wires he uses his pliers instead of a knife or a proper pair of wires strippers to remove the insulation for his connection. When they use their pliers they can sometimes nick the wires and it puts a weak spot in the wires and when the they get bent a couple of times the wire breaks.

[Big Shed]

One of the problems of wires breaking off is caused by the sparky when he strips the wires he uses his pliers instead of a knife or a proper pair of wires strippers to remove the insulation for his connection. When they use their pliers they can sometimes nick the wires and it puts a weak spot in the wires and when the they get bent a couple of times the wire breaks.

Happens more with solid core than stranded, which is also more flexible.

[Sturdee]

Peter, why do you think I'm trolling in this instance?

Mick

Mick,

The reasons why I thought you were trolling were because you already knew the answer to the question you asked.

You knew all electrical work is illegal as there have been many threads recently about this subject, so many in fact that I usually ignore these kind of posts. I only looked at these posts because you started it.

Some of these threads in recent months have been by trolls who have previously been a member here. It seems to be a blokey thing to do, to come back here and stir.

The examples you quoted are what you and I (and most people) would do and whilst they are commonsense solutions they still remain illegal.

But in view of your further post be assured that I accept that you were not trolling but trying to obtain clarification to some problems.

Peter.

[journeyman Mick]

................But in view of your further post be assured that I accept that you were not trolling but trying to obtain clarification to some problems.

Peter.

Thanks, I only suspected that my actions were illegal, as I wasn't actually touching the wiring per se.

Mick

[felixe]

Hi Mick
This attachment should help...

But to give you a taste, this is taken from the WH&S website Qld.

What is electrical work?

The

Electrical Safety Act 2002 includes as electrical work—
installation, maintenance, repair, removal or replacement of
electrical equipment.
In Queensland it is against the law for unlicensed people to perform
electrical work.
Significant penalties of up to $30,000 can apply to individuals.
Other work such as cutting openings for air-conditioning, fitting
but not connecting a wall oven in a kitchen cabinet, or replacing a
drive belt on a washing machine is not electrical work.
Please remember that other electrical risks such as contact with or
damage to internal wiring need to be considered and controlled.

[Eastie]

Mick - you will need to do a bit of research on the actual definition(s) of "electrical work" in QLD. I truly suspect that the work you propose is not outside of the set legislation, if you look at the definitions of "work/maintaince/installation" within most of the electrical acts pertaining to low voltage I think you will either come out confirming this or confused, but you will unlikely find a section of an act or reg that specifically relates the relocation of a terminated connection. Firstly you are not altering an already approved installation. Secondly it is not plant. nor equipment under strict definition so the only other aspec is is it electrical work. This is very similar to the defining what is "work under building legisation - in Victoria there are 4 direct pieces of law from the building act to the contract law act and each has a seperate definition!!! Electrical asset = yes, work = yes, electrical work = I don't think so.

[felixe]

The definition for electrical work in Qld can be found quite easily by going to the website:http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/electrica...d/electsafety/ and typing in "electrical work".

This will take you to the search results and give you the article: http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/pdf/eso/e...k_code2002.pdf

This is actually the "code of Practice for Electrical Act" of the Electrical safety act 2002, but not the actual Electrical safety Act 2002.

Now if you open this document and scan the index you will find that the definition is in Appendix A (listed alphabetically) on pages 76,77,78.

Happy reading!

Be careful taking advice from anyone Interstate - the Act and code of practice are only relevant in Queensland, and therefore any advice given on a similar Act in any other State of Territory is misleading.

[jow104]

At least here in the UK if my consumer unit (RCD's ) trip I can perform maintenance by putting the switch to on again.

[journeyman Mick]

Felixe,
thank you for clarifying this for me. From your linked document "electrical equipment" includes any cable, conductor or fitting (I'm assuming a powerpoint constitutes a fitting) and "electrical work" includes the removal or replacing of electrical equipment.

Mick

[Markw]

Just some advice to those of you that use the small non-contact voltage detectors. The safe way to use these devices is:

1. Check against a known volatge or a device which simulates a known voltage. The voltage should be the same as that being worked with.

2. Test the cable you intend to work with.

3. Re-test the detector against the known voltage before touching the cable in question.

Item number 3 is the most important one cause if the detector is damaged by the voltage in the tested cable it will show a nil voltage signal which you would assume to be a dead cable when its actually live.

For those of you who are not electricians the above must be ignored.

[NCArcher]

One of the problems of wires breaking off is caused by the sparky when he strips the wires he uses his pliers instead of a knife or a proper pair of wires strippers to remove the insulation for his connection. When they use their pliers they can sometimes nick the wires and it puts a weak spot in the wires and when the they get bent a couple of times the wire breaks.

Barry I'm outraged. Sparkies do not cause wires to be nicked. We have years of training and practice not to nick the wires.
It's only non-sparkies (and apprentices) that do that.

Just some advice to those of you that use the small non-contact voltage detectors. The safe way to use these devices is:

Do not rely on the indication given by non contact voltage detectors before touching a potentially live cable. Although they are handy devices and usefull in some situations they are not accurate or consistant and should only be used for an initial check of power to see why someting isn't working. IMO that is.

[Markw]

Do not rely on the indication given by non contact voltage detectors before touching a potentially live cable. Although they are handy devices and usefull in some situations they are not accurate or consistant and should only be used for an initial check of power to see why someting isn't working. IMO that is.

NC
Non contact detectors are no more or less reliable than any other proving device. You still must run through the 3 stage test as indicated in my previous post whether using a detector, a lamp, a meter or a modiwark (HV). Obviously you only need 2 steps if the circuit is proved live. In actual fact I would not use them for fault finding at all as they virtually useless in a customer box or even worse in a descent size switchboard.

A recent fatality highlighted by NSW WorkCover at an RSL was more a case of an unqualified person using a tool outside the instructions provided by the manufacturer. This particular case sent panic waves throughout the electrical industry for very little apparent reason. Everybody just jumped on the bandwagon to denigrate the use of non-contact detectors without reading or understanding how the fatality occured.

I work as an purchasing engineer with a NSW electricity distributor and get the WorkCover fatalities details on a regular basis. That particular case is one that shouldn't be used to show the benefits or definiencies of these tools.

[dan76]

also when the outlet is moved the terminals can become loose and need to retightened, especially when more than one cable is run to the outlet