Polishing Floorboards - My Experience

[arimar]

Thanks gooner, I wish we had you around when we did our boards. We got a professional in who showed us his photos of previous jobs, all exceptional, he also showed letters from previous customers. Our floors however did not look anywhere near as good. He left circular marks in every room, the gloss levels were uneven all up i would say a very shabby job. We had a baby on the way and so did not ask for him to fix it. We are now about to do a major renovation and will do a great deal of research as to who does the job re our floorboards this time round. Its great to hear that there are people out there who take real pride in what they do.

[Gooner]

some of the old floor was covered in particle board and lino that had been nailed down with small nails every 5cm apart . the best way i found to remove these was to use vice grips and a spare floor board to roll the side of the vice grips on to create some leverage if needed ...

i was going to do the sanding myself .but after doing a lot of research and reading your post i have desided to get the pros to do it ...the one problem that know doubt is the reason you and most people do the job themselve is you really don't know how good the person you are getting to do the job is and if they really care about the finish as must as you do . and how many sands and coats they will do

Heyya Jags.

Just two comments to make to your response.

Firstly, I did try the vice grip method you describe. The problem is that because so much of the staple was in the wood, most of the time the staple would break off at the top. When this happened it was very hard to get it out.

Secondly, it seems like I have put a few people off from sanding their own floors. This wasn't really my intention as such, but did want to point out that it is not an "easy weekend job".

If I was to get a "professional" in next time to sand the floors then I would definitely do one of two things;

1. Get them to only sand the floors and apply the finish myself. This would give me the chance to get down on the floor and inspect the job properly and fix up any imperfections I could see. (Or get them to fix it). Smallish imperfections tend to show up even more when a gloss finish is put on a floor. However, I would like to point out again that applying the finish is no walk in the park either. It is not hard to apply the finish itself if you follow a good application method, but the -entire- floor must be lightly sanded between -each- coat, thoroughly vacuumed, and if you want to make sure a good job is done, go over the -entire- floor between -each- coat by hand using a tack cloth after vacuuming. This all takes some time.

2. Get them to sand and finish, but not to progress with the application of the finish until I had a chance to inspect the floor preparation first. I think this would give me a good overall indication of the quality of their work. If I was thoroughly unimpressed, I would pay them what the floor sanding was worth and ask them to walk away from the finishing job and then do it myself.

[Gooner]

Thanks gooner, I wish we had you around when we did our boards. We got a professional in who showed us his photos of previous jobs, all exceptional, he also showed letters from previous customers. Our floors however did not look anywhere near as good. He left circular marks in every room, the gloss levels were uneven all up i would say a very shabby job. We had a baby on the way and so did not ask for him to fix it. We are now about to do a major renovation and will do a great deal of research as to who does the job re our floorboards this time round. Its great to hear that there are people out there who take real pride in what they do.

Arimar, as I just wrote in my last response, that is why I would insist on inspecting the sanded floor before any "professional" applied the finish. Getting down on your hands and knees and looking at the sanded floor before finishing at different angles to a light source will reveal any swirls.

(We also had a baby (our first) on the way, so it was the first job we wanted to get done. He was born just two days ago

[chrise]

Hi Gooner

Like you I did our floors, about 100sm of wonderful old 70's Cyprus Pine under the carpet and the 2 layers of Lino and then a layer of kitchen carpet on top of that again in the kitchen. Seems that it was easier to just lay more lino and then kitchen carpet over the top each time the previous owners wanted to up date the kitchen coverings *sigh*. I was lucky as the floor boards were in near mint condition underneath the carpet etc (dirty but mint) 95% nails had been punched at some stage when the house was built so not having to punch all the nails saved me a lot of time. My carpet was laid the old way not using smooth edge but folded over and stapled all around the edges and I think the carpet layer let the apprentice loose with the staple gun on the edging and underlay as well. In the kitchen I had the same problems as you with 10,000 staples in the floor many breaking off when trying to pull them out, I simply punched the broken ones that couldn't be pulled in with a very fine nail punch. As Cyprus pine is a very busy floor some extra holes with putty in them didn't matter and does not show. (A funny note, when we pulled 3 layers of floor covering up in the kitchen we could finally get our feet underneath the kick boards of the kitchen cabinets.)

I originally hired one of the Hiretech drum floor sanders (The most common brand from the hire shops like Coates and Kennards etc) as they were cheaper to hire (where I live) than the bigger ones from Bunning's with the drum control lever on it. I used the hiretech one for 1 day only and found it OK if you were very careful but like you I did leave 1 smallish sized gouge in the spare room floor (but its underneath the bed) I took the hiretech one back and went to Bunning's and hired the better sander. Should have hired the Bunning's one in the first place as I have used in the past both the Hiretech ones and the lever control ones. Way way easier to use and a far superior job even for a Bunning's hire unit. I didn't need to use the road grit 40 paper and cross cut on my floors as at some stage the floor had been sanded before the carpet was laid when the house was built and 99% of all the boards were nearly perfect although there were some previous (smallish) gouge marks in the floor and not all of them came out. I started with 60 and then went straight to 120 without an issue at all.

(A hint for anyone wanting to sand their own floors get the drum sander with the drum control lever on it well worth the extra few $ in ease of use, time and finish)

As far as the edging sander goes yes they are a pain and can be back breaking but having removed all the skirting boards before hand as part of the reno made the job so much easier. Again I started with 60 grit paper, unless the floor is in very bad condition with lots of uneven boards there is not really a need to use road base 40 grit to start with (in my opinion). A big hint with an edging sander is if you hit a nail/staple you missed or that was just under the surface replace the paper straight away if it has torn the paper as they will leave gouges on the floor quick time. The same applies to the drum sander but it doesn't seem to mark the timber as badly as the edging sander will with torn paper. I am also lucky that a great mate owns a furniture manufacturing business and he lent me one of the commercial Festool random orbital sanders with vacuum attached on the weekend when they were not needing it in the business and these just blow the edging sanders away in my opinion for ease of use and finish. Yes it does take a bit longer as they are not as powerful or as heavy as the proper edging sanders but when you are doing it your self you are not technically on the charge by the hour clock.

Something you will also find when sanding floors (and the pros can correct me here if wrong) is that no matter how careful you are and how fastidious with the drum sander you are you can get some small chatter marks in some of the boards, as the boards them selves can sometimes vibrate/chatter under the drum as you pass over sections. Very hard to stop this happening or to get the small chatter marks out. A lot of the time the chatter marks are not noticeable until you put the first coat of floor sealer on and by then its to late unless you want to start again.

I didn't fill the nail holes until till I was ready to do the final finish sand. As far as filling all of the nail holes I mixed 2 different Timbermate putties together to get almost a perfect match for the floor. I found the Cyprus pine colour was to yellow and the Cedar colour was sort of to brown, about 2 thirds Cyprus and 1 third cedar was near perfect for my floor colour.

I used Feast Watson Floor Seal on my floor a tung oil based floor sealer as we wanted a more satin finish than high gloss and also its way easier to apply and can be repaired easily (unlike Poly and 2 pac polly). Being a tight ass and needing 3 X 10 litre tins to do 3 coats on my floor I went shopping for price on the sealer. Bunning's is about $160.00 per tin. Looking on Ebay (one of my fav places to get well priced items for our reno) I found dented tins for $80.00 a tin from a Sydney trader plus $10.00 per tin postage if needed. (A mate was coming up from Sydney for a weekend so saved another $30.00) There is nothing wrong at all with dented tins of paint or floor sealer etc and in most cases if you shop around you will save your self lots of $$$$'s buying dented tins. For some reason people want to buy perfect looking tins of paint etc from the Bunning's type shops of the retail world.

Gooner don't be to paranoid about scratches/marks etc on/in your floor, it is at the end of the day only a floor that used and abused with every day life.

[seriph1]

Any chance of some pics for those posters who have done this job? I know floors are hard to photograph but for me at least, seeing a few pics might give me a little hope if I ever decide to tackle what sounds like an unbearable job!

[aussiecolector]

I have done a few floors. I live over 200km from the nearest hire shop so I went all out and bought a second hand 12" drum sander and 6" edger. I have applied two different finishes, Tungseal ($170 per 20l) and Orange Tung oil ($530 per 20l). Both can be patched up.

I'm not all that fussy with a perfect finish but I'm getting better as I go along. I don't putty nail holes as that seems to fit in better with the old houses around here.

Photo is of a new bedroom I built on for my 16 year old daughter. I did the work myself with a little help from some mates, starting with cementing in the stumps. All the timber is finished with tungseal, two coats on the floor and one on everything else. I still have to finish the ladder to the top bunk and one draw handle which I make myself. Note the locker at the head of each bed for all those secret things.

[LegacyGT]

I hired the drum and edge sander from Kennards yesterday and what a dirty job that was. Started at 9am finished at 9pm. Was only a small 4x3m room but i am so sore.

I know your not supposed to lift the drum sander but it was more effective - i had to fight the machine constantly. Now that the sanding is done i don't think i have the strength to polish it.

How do i clean the boards in the sanded state so it doesn't feel dirty when you walk on it? i have wiped it down 4 times and vacuumed it twice.

[Gooner]

How do i clean the boards in the sanded state so it doesn't feel dirty when you walk on it? i have wiped it down 4 times and vacuumed it twice.

What grit paper did you use for the final sand? What type of timber?

After the final sand the floor should feel very smooth. You should be using at least 100 grit paper. I used 120 grit and went over it a few times to make it very smooth. After drum and edge sanding with the 120 grit it wasn't as smooth as I wanted it so I went over it again with a small orbital using 120 grit. This made it "baby bottom smooth". After that I vacuumed twice (using a small head on the vacuum cleaner) and then tack clothed.

It is important the floor is smooth before finishing or else it will show.

[Terrian]

drum sanders, bah,humbug, we did the hallways & 2 bedrooms with a 4" grinder with a triton random orbital sander attachment, finished off with a hand held sanding block about 14 years ago (2 years later we scored more than enough near new old carpet to re-carpet the whole house)

[nickster]

Hi all,
have read with interest, and now i've been sanding floors for a few days I now have a few questions.

the pine wooden floors (tongue in groove) have moved slightly over the last 50 odd years, and now there are 1-3 mm gaps between all of the boards. What have other people used to fill these gaps? I read that someone mixed 2 coloured putty's to match the floor for nail holes, but am thinking this is going to be a big job if i have to putty all the joins. I have 2 rooms at 3 x 4 m and a hallway 4m long to do.

I will tackle the hardwood floors at the back of the house in a week or so but they haven't moved and don't have gaps so fingers crossed everything goes well with those ones!

thanks,

Nick

[abitfishy]

Bugger, I was actually coming on tonight to see if there was an easy way to remove all the staples I'm left with now I've ripped up the carpet, but maybe there isn't. I'm using pliers to pull them up, never thought of using the nail puller of a hammer.....will give it a try.

[seriph1]

putty doesn't really have any give in it so will fail because timber is always taking on, and giving off moisture, therefore always moving. Having said this though, you may not actually mean putty but wood filler (like Timbermate) - you can mix filler to match a wood, but you will be faced with the same problem...... I believe a flexible caulk (applied with a caulking gun) would be a far better bet and it is available in a range of colours - Pine is one of them. The one I used is still happily sealing our Baltic Pine hallway floorboards after 5 years. It was sorta messy to apply, but cleaned up in water. As I did it I thought to myself that (if there was such a thing) a really stiff sponge would be an ideal thing to wipe away the excess, as the cloth and sponges I used created a concave result. BTW to try and curb the drafts in our floors, I am going to try a bead of plumbers foam between some boards that have lost their tongues entirely. I believe there is a spray product that's denser than the regular foam but I haven't seen it. Will probably be a disaster but hey, these boards are so damaged I have nothing to lose.

[seriph1]

Bugger, I was actually coming on tonight to see if there was an easy way to remove all the staples I'm left with now I've ripped up the carpet, but maybe there isn't. I'm using pliers to pull them up, never thought of using the nail puller of a hammer.....will give it a try.

Not sure how heavy these staples are, but I was surprised when I used some pincers (nippers?) to remove some very fine nails - they worked a treat when the pliers kept breaking the things off.

[abitfishy]

Not sure how heavy these staples are, but I was surprised when I used some pincers (nippers?) to remove some very fine nails - they worked a treat when the pliers kept breaking the things off.

Pincers.....yeah, I think worth a try. Trouble with the pliers is gripping the staples that tend to be in deeper is difficult, sometimes taking 3 or 4 tries to pull it out - all around the border of the room this will take me tooooo long, and my hand will be flamin sore too! But gee, jarrah floorboards are so much nicer than 70's carpet.

[Gooner]

the pine wooden floors (tongue in groove) have moved slightly over the last 50 odd years, and now there are 1-3 mm gaps between all of the boards. What have other people used to fill these gaps?
Nick

I used Timbermate wood filler to fill any gaps that were around 2-3mm wide. I have T&G Tasmanian oak boards that were laid around 30 years ago. I did my floorboards back in October and I have noticed that over the summer some of the gaps have become wider and "cracked open" the putty in the gaps. Therefore I would probably try and find something better suited to the job than Timbermate. The pros in the instructional videos and books I have used a slurry type method to apply the filler. I don't know what it is they used but they cover the entire floor with the stuff. It obviously must be meant for the job.

Bugger, I was actually coming on tonight to see if there was an easy way to remove all the staples I'm left with now I've ripped up the carpet, but maybe there isn't. I'm using pliers to pull them up, never thought of using the nail puller of a hammer.....will give it a try.

I had zero success with pliers with my very stubborn staples. Scooter recommended the use of some "Grippliers" eary in this thread. I did not use them myself, but I have since seen something similar at Bunnings. (In fact the ones at Bunnings look better). I think they look promising. Image attached.

As I have already mentioned, I had success by grinding a point on the nail puller part of the hammer. I have attached a photo of this as well. Seeing is your staples are near the wall, perhaps you could try the same on a pry-bar if you are really having problems.