Getting a better Energy deal - WHAT A JOKE!

[Bushmiller]

I really meant other ideas for the short term - say the next 5 years.

If things start going pear shaped from this summer (say in Vic with no Hazelwood), then surely there will have to be some pretty immediate action. As I pointed out earlier, if the 18/19 summer is a power disaster then the following election around September 2019 will undoubtedly be fought/won/lost on power.

For the moment Victoria can import power from NSW, SA (that one's a bit ironic) and Tasmania (providing they have had rain) so unless they are extremely unlucky, they won't run out of power. In fact Victoia is the only state with three interconnectors. However, sod's law says that things will go pear shaped in one form or another!

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

I wasn't aware that we were merely days away from a major energy policy announcement:
Malcolm Turnbull is close to finalising the energy package — but can he sell it? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I'll bet pounds to pence that it will be weak, and without leadership. It will probably pay a bit of lip service to the Finkel Report, at best. There will be some appeasement for the Abbott camp in there and that will weaken it severely. It's about time Fizza stood up to be counted, particularly on this most important of matters.

Why on Earth Fizza thinks the general population cares about Abbot is beyond me - it's only the Liberal Party itself that is concerned.

Interesting that Michelle Grattan (in that article) notes that:
"Business will need to be convinced the energy policy is credible and the Government is committed to it.

But if, as expected, the Government is set on a path that will accentuate the differences with Labor, this will deeply disappoint business, which has an eye to the opinion polls suggesting a Shorten government next term is more likely than not."

So she seems to think that whoever has the best energy policy will win the next election (or at least who is perceived to have the best policy).

So do I.

[Dibbers]

So she seems to think that whoever has the best energy policy will win the next election (or at least who is perceived to have the best policy).

So do I.

I think that will be one of many issues that will swing the vote in favour of Labor.

One thing Abbott did well to get the Libs back in was to attack every single one of labors policies and oppose them outright. Whether the Liberals agreed with the position labor took in principle or not, they opposed it outright. Problem was, when Abbott got into power, he didn't have any policies of his own other than a "Labor's policies have to go" and "Stop the boats" so people soon realised he was all defense with no offence, hence the spill (that and looking like a right twat in most gatherings of international leaders).

I think the way Labor is going about their time in opposition currently is actually a much smarter approach given the current disengagement of the average joe with modern Australian politics. They're taking the popular view on many key issues. The Energy Crisis, Banks and a certain Social/political survey currently running that i don't want to get into on this forum to name a few. And while they haven't necessarily come out with the detail of what they will do when (i think its almost inevitable) they win the next election, they at least have a position on these issues which seems to resonate with the general population.

Don't get me wrong, i think the Energy/Environmental issues will play a key part in the way people vote, i think Labor seem to be taking the general consensus of the people into their positioning on these issues.

With ol' onion eater spouting out his rubbish that seems to further divide the Libs, I think Labor will waltz into power quite easily. People are getting more an more frustrated with a Mal who used to be seen as a balance between right and left wing politics, and are coming to the realisation that his leadership play has resulted in him being at the mercy of a very conservative faction within his party.

I've never seen myself as a rusted on Liberal or Labor voter (lets face it, they both screw you over one way or another), but the Liberals are in a vote retention mode rather than a vote winning mode... and they aren't even doing that very well to be fair...

[FenceFurniture]

I suspect you may be largely correct Dibbers. But even more, I suspect that if we had some real leadership - policy that is good for us rather than what we just want (i.e. not populist) then that would be the keys to Canberra for quite some time. As justification for that I cite the reforms of the Hawke-Keating years where much of it was either not what we necessarily wanted, or even indeed knew anything about at the time (e.g. floating the dollar) but the country got what it needed.

There are times when tough decisions have to be taken, even if it means jeopardising your electoral victories for the greater good. That is the sort of leadership we need on energy, but I fear we won't be given it. Keating didn't dub him Fizza for nothing (the best nickname since The Goanna).

[Dibbers]

I suspect you may be largely correct Dibbers. But even more, I suspect that if we had some real leadership - policy that is good for us rather than what we just want (i.e. not populist) then that would be the keys to Canberra for quite some time. As justification for that I cite the reforms of the Hawke-Keating years where much of it was either not what we necessarily wanted, or even indeed knew anything about at the time (e.g. floating the dollar) but the country got what it needed.

There are times when tough decisions have to be taken, even if it means jeopardising your electoral victories for the greater good. That is the sort of leadership we need on energy, but I fear we won't be given it. Keating didn't dub him Fizza for nothing (the best nickname since The Goanna).

I agree with all of that. I was only alive for half of the Hawke era and only a young bloke for Keating so i'm not really that across what was implemented/achieved or what the climate was like back then, i was too busy watching the ninja turtles...

I do agree that we need someone with actual vision and not just in it to be re-elected. Thats the biggest problem with most democratic political systems, anyone who wants to do anything that will genuinely benefit the country (i.e. short term pain, long term gain) gets voted out, or never gets the leadership in the first place.

While the Labor policies to date are populist, they are at least taking small steps to what needs to happen, so the lesser of two evils at the moment. Which is the reasoning i think most Australians will take. Its not because Shorten and his crew are doing wonderful things for the country, its more that they're doing less damage than the mob thats in power at the moment.... sad state of affairs really..

[woodPixel]

Two stories today to gladden the hearts of those who love batteries:

Toshiba : Press Release (3 Oct, 2017): Toshiba Develops Next-Generation Lithium-ion Battery with New Anode Material
http://newatlas.com/toshiba-scib-bat...e-range/51667/

It takes little imagination to think that these leaps in battery storage will continue. Imagine the opportunities for usage-averaging for lighting, TV and computer circuits in the home.

Quote:
A key focus of electric vehicle (EV) makers is maximizing the range users can get from each charge, and for that reason new battery technologies are poised to play a huge part in driving their adoption. Toshiba has developed a new fast-charging battery it claims could allow EVs to travel three times as far as they do now, and then be fully recharged again in a matter of minutes.

Toshiba's SCiB (Super Charge ion Battery) has been around in various forms since 2007, with its chief claim to fame an ability to charge to 90 percent of capacity in just five minutes. It also boasts a life-span of 10 years and high levels of safety, and has found its way into a number of notable EVs, including Mitsubishi's i MiEV and Honda's Fit EV. The current SCiB uses lithium titanium oxide as its anode, but Toshiba says it has now come up with a better way of doing things. The next-generation SCiB uses a new material for the anode called titanium niobium oxide, which Toshiba was able to arrange into a crystal structure that can store lithium ions more efficiently. So much so, that the energy density has been doubled.

[FenceFurniture]

I suppose that countries that have embraced nuclear power don't have (or don't think they have) much need for Solar and other renewables yet, therefore their thrust for battery development would be largely through electric vehicles. That probably doesn't matter much as both applications (vehicles & houses) are pretty high draw, so the batteries would be more or less transferable.

[fletty]

I suppose that countries that have embraced nuclear power don't have (or don't think they have) much need for Solar and other renewables yet, therefore their thrust for battery development would be largely through electric vehicles. That probably doesn't matter much as both applications (vehicles & houses) are pretty high draw, so the batteries would be more or less transferable.

An interesting story that I have been told revolves around this very issue. Until very recently, German vehicle manufacturers were notably absent from the electric vehicle market. This was because all German vehicle manufacturers have ISO14000 accreditation and, part of that accreditation demands a proven disposal path for ALL components of the vehicle. Until recently, there was no proven disposal path for L-ion batteries. However, batteries in vehicles require charging and discharging on a 24 hour cycle and, after a year or so, L-ion batteries are unable to withstand that charge/discharge regime. Batteries for use in power networks however may only require to charge and discharge a few times each year and so German vehicle manufacturers and European network equipment suppliers have set up,an arrangement whereby once the vehicle batteries get 'tired' they retire to network applications and hence there is now a disposal path.
Get ready for German EVs!
fletty

[fletty]

Re some of the earlier questions about 'islanding' micro grids and do they connect on and off when the network is/isn't available, this short clip may be of interest. The key points are that this unit, which happens to include a diesel generator, connects to the grid or, if not available, switches in solar and/or wind and, if not available, turns on the diesel generator. It can also have gas generation as its back up. So, if you had a mine or community by a gas main with solar and/or wind and/or micro hydro, you drag one of these in, connect it all up and its operation to switch sources is absolutely seamless to the consumer/s. it can be programmed to prioritise sources so that it takes the renewables first, only turns on the gas or diesel if insufficient renewables are available and connect to the national grid if available or requested. One element that is fascinating to me is that if/when it connects to the grid, it automatically synchronises to the grid frequency. It was also developed in Australia.

https://www.facebook.com/16423741695...2228002825981/

fletty

[Lappa]

The only policy i’ve heard from Turnbull in the last couple of days re power supplies, is to pay people to turn off their appliances in peak periods. If that’s the best he can do, we are in a lot of trouble!

[FenceFurniture]

Policy announcement will be at least a week away I should think. Cabinet then Party Room etc.

[Lappa]

Policy announcement will be at least a week away I should think. Cabinet then Party Room etc.

If that’s the case, maybe he should avoid talking to the press until it’s been decided

[FenceFurniture]

If that’s the case, maybe he should avoid talking to the press until it’s been decided

Errr, you DO realise he's a pollie.....? I suspect you're suggesting engaging brain before talking?

[fletty]

The only policy i’ve heard from Turnbull in the last couple of days re power supplies, is to pay people to turn off their appliances in peak periods. If that’s the best he can do, we are in a lot of trouble!

To be honest, to those inside the industry who have been waiting for sensible policy, direction and discussion for nigh on 20 years, turning off the aircon during peak time is the only practical action we can take before we run out of generation in 3 to 5 years?

[Chris Parks]

If that’s the case, maybe he should avoid talking to the press until it’s been decided

As with all politicians it is moi first and bugger the rest as can be seen in the piece that the SMH ran this morning where he started out on the right path and then bent over so he could be the PM.

Malcolm Turnbull prophet of his own doom on energy policy