I'm sick of hearing GLOBAL WARMING AGGHHH

[reeves]

Is that like a categorical maybe?

I think it might be 'inclusive', that is a combination of 'yes GW is natural' and then humans are effecting the situation with our emissions and other heat inducing activities, including breathing.

Whatever the ratio for either cause, the IPCC says it's 90%, other say lower, maybe 70/30, tho its possibly anyones guess which is the higher cause, natural or humans. At the end of the day the sun is the cause even with C02 emissions as in C02 traps the sun's heat in the atmosphere.

[Grunt]

Even if we take action and later discover that our effect on climate hasnt been as significant as predicted then I dont see it as a total disaster....we will have at least done something to clean up the garbage heap weve turned this planet into and well have made an effort to reduce the obscene wastefullness that makes us unique as a species.

If it is humans that are significantly changing the climate and we didn't do something about it our children and grand-children that survive will hate us.

[woodbe]

Actually, I don't care if I'm post-humously hated.

I do care if I stare a problem in the face and do nothing about it though. I'm thinking: "Am I part of the problem, or part of the solution"

Surprised this thread is not locked yet. I don't think my Tassie thread lasted this lomg...

woodbe.

[ozwinner]

I can just see all you "Global Warming " sooth sayers jumping on the band wagon and saying "I knew that" when its proven to all be crap and nothing more than a planet thing that has been going on for millions of years.

Al

[Gingermick]

Yes well, some of us may be around.

[Cliff Rogers]

I have more beer in the fridge now.

[woodbe]

I can just see all you "Global Warming " sooth sayers jumping on the band wagon and saying "I knew that" when its proven to all be crap and nothing more than a planet thing that has been going on for millions of years.

Al

And I can just see all you practiced denial experts saying 'I told you!' as the planet ejects the last remains of the human cancer into oblivion.

We are awakening the sleeping giant...

woodbe.

[himzol]

well I've just walked away from the TV, and the first thread that pops up is this one.... hmmmmm I say to my self.
I've just put up with god knows how many "you have to haggle" and "closing down sale" comercials...as far as I'm concerned, the end of humanity can't come quick enough, if only to rid the world of marketing executives.

I'll have one of those beers now Cliff.

(is there a tounge in cheek smily? (not about the beer, I really want one))

BTW I think woodbe has hit it right on the head, we are part of the problem and we do need to be part of the solution.

That said, every living thing on this planet is part of the problem.
However we are the only living things that can do anything about the solution

And now we go back full circle... Does the problem exist?


H.

[Grunt]

The Problem exists without doubt. The climate is changing and it is changing fast.

The question is whether it is caused by man or not.

Most of the climate scientists believe it is caused by humans putting GHG into the atmosphere. We will never get 100% consensus on this and we will never be 100% sure of the cause.

Our choice is to do something about it or do nothing.

If we do nothing and continue the path we're on and it is cause by us the consequences will be dire.
If we do something and it isn't caused by us, it wouldn't be such a bad thing as Kiwigo has said.

You should have a look at the doco Crude.

[Big Shed]

Have been reluctant to take part in this discussion as it seems that most people have already made up their mind one way or another.

Saw an item on ABC News tonight that prompted me to add my my 2c worth.

The item was about an alarming increase in Vitamin D defiency in people of all ages. Our learned scientists have worked out that this is because the "Slip, Slap and Slop" campaign has been too successful and people are not being exposed to the sun enough.

I find this mildly ironical as it proves that science is often reasonably good at identifying a problem, but often not so good at either identifying the cause, or indeed at suggesting how to cure the problem.
So we are now faced with a problem caused by scientists recommending a course of action to overcome a problem, skin cancer, and thereby causing another problem, Vitamin D defiency.

Whilst I realise that this problem is not nearly on the scale of the problem of climate change, it does illustrate the point that science and scientists are not omnipotent.

The very science that is identifying the problem of climate change is the science that gives us our weather forecasts.
If the predictions for climate change are as accurate as our weather forecasts, than I will take the whole climate change argument with a grain of salt.

[woodbe]

The very science that is identifying the problem of climate change is the science that gives us our weather forecasts.
If the predictions for climate change are as accurate as our weather forecasts, than I will take the whole climate change argument with a grain of salt.

So, Big Shed,

When the weather man tells you that it is going to rain on your bbq, and you look out the window and see dark clouds, do you take your raincoat or leave it behind?



Woodbe.

[reeves]

hahah Like the links posted further down the thread, rather than just endless personal opinions, have a read of the IPCC report, read the general wiki rundown on GW, read Flanneries book the Weather Makers, read Hansens NASA report, watch Al Gores movie, Read Crichtons State of fear book and then form a view.

If you do you will probaly come to the same conclusion at Kwigeo, others and I have. That both sides are true and contributing to GW. Even if humans stopped all emissions today, GW would still continue until its time to cool down again.

Large scale reduction in human population is the only way to functionaly reduce our contribution to GW. And then you still have 'natural' climate change cycles.

[reeves]

The very science that is identifying the problem of climate change is the science that gives us our weather forecasts.

BS, yr comment is a little intriguing. The general forecasts and usually done via meterologists using standard meterology techniques that are well known and publicly available.

Global warming and climate change science is a complex area innvolving various disiplines including climate science itself, paleoclimatology, atmospheric science, geology, solar studies and atmospheric chemistry among others.

The basic oberservations behind anthropogenic GW is the rise of C02 levels brought on by human C02 emissions and deforestation practices which have reduced the amount of trees and plants to convert C02 to oxygen.

This coupled with various possible 'natural' causes of global warming such as solar radiance, orbital forcing, magma tides, atmospheric evolution and others, in combination give us global warming.

These sciences and functions have little to do with day to day meterology forecasts.

If anyone is genuinely interesting in learning more about this complex issue check the IPCC report pages and maybe take some time to read the reports.

http://www.ipcc.ch/
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html

specifically the technical summary

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Pub_TS.pdf

of the climate projections

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Pub_Ch10.pdf

informal skeptical data (could be dubious but entertaining)

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/
http://www.globalwarming.org/

or the numerous other sites devoted to the issue

http://www.climatehotmap.org/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/
http://globalwarming.net/
http://www.climatecrisis.net/

the GW for kids is possibly a good place get some simple information

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=gl...-revision&cd=4



Been pretty cool in these parts lately ;-)

[reeves]

GW pictures http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/ GW jokes http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/e...balwarming.htm

"Former Vice President Al Gore starring in a new documentary about global warming. I believe it's called [Leno snores]. ... The film actually features Al Gore and explores his journey on how he first got interested in temperature change. It started back when he was vice president. He noticed how the temperature would change, like whenever Bill would walk into the room, it would get warm and whenever Hillary walked into the room, it got cold." --Jay Leno

GW cartoons http://healthandenergy.com/global_warming_cartoons.htm

[Gingermick]

Large scale reduction in human population is the only way to functionaly reduce our contribution to GW

I know a few we can get started with