Advice needed for some new projects

[Lawry01]

Eagerly awaiting the artisan fruits!!

[Horsecroft88]

I have to admit not a lot of artisan fruits to report back on Lawry, so far. I did manage finally to get out to the country property on Sunday, do a little work out there on polishing skirtings and architraves in the hallway, but on leaving also found the piece of cedar I had in mind for the base plinth for the box and a piece of wood to fill in the small missing section on one of the sides.

I got around to heat gunning back the paint off last night and next off need to clean up the residual muck left behind. I also have started off cleaning back/sanding lightly one of the sides for the box and all going well will crack on with that tonight after dinner. If I can manage it, I will give this also some shellac coating and take some more progress pictures.

The piece of cedar I will use for the plinth is wide enough to cut in half, but before I start cutting this up, including mitre-ing the ends to meet up, I do need to take some good measurements. I need to get this right as I don't have much spare to muck it up. Anyway, hopefully more progress to report on shortly.

[Horsecroft88]

Right time today for a quick update. I managed to get a little work donelast night in sanding back the internal face of one of the sides of the box and thereafter giving it, its first 3-4 coats of shellac. I have to admit I really love seeing the colour of the cedar come back to life. I also (as seen in one of the photos), also needed to do a small repair to one of the dovetail joints as a section came away when I was cleaning it up. A quick glue and clamp for a few hours sorted that out.

I will also include a photo of the first part (end piece) of the box that I previously worked on which is finished until after re-construction, where upon I will give it probably another one or two coats of shellac. But you will see the colour and grain that now looks as it should.

I also did a little work on sanding and shellacing a small piece of timber (was a skirting) which I will cut and use for the repair of the missing section on the other side piece of the box, as per the previous photo. Shouldn't be too difficult to do this, measure, cut, glue and clamp. Thereafter I might as well put a screw or two in to make certain it holds. Any screw holes will be covered over so as not to be visible.

In the second photo you can see the piece of cedar which I will clean up and cut down to size to use for the base plinth. This shouldn't really present any real problems. Paint stripper, steel wool and a little more sandpaper picked up at lunchtime today from Mitre 10 to enable work to continue as I can. Plenty more of that yet.

[Lawry01]

Looking good Dave! (By the way, is ANYONE else looking at this thread?? It seems to be a bit like the Two Ronnies definition of dialogue...Monologue..one person talking to themselves..Dialogue = 2 people talking to themselves!!)

Do you foresee any issues with your skirting 'graft' grain/ tone not matching the rest of the cedar? Hopefully not.
Also, what glue have you use on the dovetail repir, as I would imagine it ought to be fairly strong? Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Lawry, believe me I am really glad that you and one or two others have provided me with both feedback and a sounding board, since at times I must admit it does kind of feel like I am talking to myself, and you know what they say about that in the index of increasing madness. I think it comes just after looking for hairs on the palm of your hands !!

Anyway someone else must be since given the number of views this thread is getting, I know this much it isnt just me or yourself looking, I can re-assure you my head isn't that big !!!

Regarding the skirting/plinth and or the other repair piece of timber, truthfully I really don't know. Only time will tell as I finish off cleaning the timber up and cutting it to size. Hopefully it will match ok, if not, it will be back to the drawing board of timber supplies to find alternative pieces to use. Don't worry I am not going to install them without checking first. A dry run to see how it all looks.

In terms of glue, as so far all I needed to do was a really small repair to one of the dovetail sections, I simply used a Selly's professional woodwork glue. However, as mentioned when it comes to put the box together, I am to be using hide glue. The forum member (can't recall his name off the top of my head), used this in repairing his cedar chair and he provided the contact details on where to get this. His recommendation was that it is brilliant for repairing antique furniture. So it sounds like a plan to me. First off though I still have much cleaning up to do and preparation work before I am ready to put it back together.

Don't suppose you have any projects on the go or at least pending, mate ??

[Lawry01]

Don't suppose you have any projects on the go or at least pending, mate ??

Yes, I'll accept that turn of phrase..."Pending" sounds potentially motivating!!! I do have a small coffee table that I have simply used Restora a finish on, but want to actually strip back and shellac to a nice lustre soon ! That, and another small pine table with some laminate/ veneer (never know the difference really) that needs to be re glued, and then the whole piece keyed back and of course..shellacked. Probably overkill on that one (cost me $10) but good practice and it will hopefully look far better than its value!! Bit of fun anyway, and good practice. I'm keen to see how you go with hide glue etc., as I do wonder if that laminate was stuck on with it (& therefore may re-adhere with some heat??) Its probably a 1940's - 60's item. Dave..I also reckon after this job, start a new thread...your 'viewed' record will be nigh impossible to beat

[3 toed sloth]

Keep up the good work fellas, I for one am thoroughly enjoying this thread, looking forward to seeing the box in all its glory.

[gyropilot]

Looking good....
I think there are quite a few people (beside me) reading this thread with interest....

Cheers

Geoff

[Horsecroft88]

Thanks a lot guys, the positive encouragement/feedback is really nice to receive and yes me too, I also am looking forward to the box being completed.

I have to admit Lawry, I have wondered about whether or not perhaps to let this thread go after completion of this latest project. I certainly have no wish to hog the limelight and it is probably about time I faded away a little. Heh heh, yep pending is a great term for projects in waiting !! And it is good to know that you have such projects just waiting to be commenced. In writing and posting pictures of what I am working on, afterall I do hope it helps encourage others to do likewise. Afterall, I know for myself it keeps me out of all sorts of trouble which I am sure is peace of mind for the other half, known as (er in doors to borrow a well known phrase from Arfur Daily), ah except she surfs all her free time.

Ok, enough crap and to woody stuff. I did manage to fit in a little work last night, after going to see a movie and also in between stints in front of the telly watching the Tour de France. Go Ritchie Porte !! (he is a Tassie bike rider afterall). So, I rubbed back using 400 grade and re-coated about 3 times the backside of the side of the box, and I am happy to leave that alone now, next off will be to key back and re-polish the outside of this section.

I also started work on paint stripping back the length of cedar I will use for the plinth. I have a few photos which I will post. But I also want to take this opportunity to discuss cedar/antique re-polishing restoration in general and again provide some photos to help explain.

First off, in paint stripping cedar by hand, my experience is that it can be difficult but it really depends on probably a couple of factors. First off is the original surface, and grain of the cedar. Some cedar seems to be a little more open in its grain then others and herein lays a problem when stripping off old paint. The second thing is this, I would seriously never recommend having cedar dipped. My experience is that it will badly discolour/bleach and as well cause cracking of the timber. At least with hand stripping this will never occur. At worst you may burn the timber a little if using a heat gun to get the paint off, but this can be moderated with care and a little work afterwards if needed. In the picture of the panelled door, (it being a half glazed and lower panel door) the main frame of the door is baltic, but the two bottom panels and the mouldings are/were cedar, as well as the lower dividing panel. The panels themselves had a lot of splitting, the cedar itself was grey, one of the mouldings disintegrated hence a replacement moulding, while the centre divider also split and needed to be cedar puttied up. I bought the door as it was, as it suited my needs, it being a really lovely early colonial door, but it did cause me a lot of hard work to repair it.

In stripping back the cedar I will use for the plinth, as the photos show, paint has embedded itself within the grain making it really hard to get rid of all traces of it. The problem then becomes one of diminishing returns as to how many times you coat the timber with paint stripper and try and get rid of it using coarse grade (0) steel wool. Having said that, I have with some cedar also been lucky where all paint has come off easily, with no issues of paint having soaked into the grain. Normally with say something like baltic pine or even kauri or huon this is not a problem, apart from around knots, which requires any residual paint to be slowly teased out.

In the 3 photos of cedar planks in my home (door reveals and also hallway arch trim), in the close up picture if you look carefully you should be able to see that I couldn't completely get rid of all traces of paint, and yet in the two other sections I had no trouble at all.

It is just something to be aware of in restoring cedar furniture or joinery.

Then other thing I wished to show/talk about is the issue of when to restore a piece or not. I will post some pictures of some cedar chairs I have and a round cedar breakfast table. My view for what it is worth, is that if the original polish is in reasonable to good condition then it is best to leave alone and/or at most use a reviver polish/wax polish. On the other hand if the finish is completely dead and/or the surface is badly damaged i.e. scratched or even badly stained then perhaps it is wise to strip back and re-polish. The only risk here is that if you take it too far back or make it too perfect, it is never going to look as nice as say an original piece. Again the photos I will post show these sorts of issues.

I will get on over the weekend and hopefully make a start in cutting up the repair pieces for the box/plinth, plus more polishing of the components.

Thanks everyone for the interest.

[Horsecroft88]

Next off the chairs and the table. The first two chairs (rail back and I am not sure what you call the second one) are both completely original and date to around the 1860s. Neither have been restored and don't need to be. That is what I mean about having patina and that they can be enjoyed as are. A simple waxing every now and again is all that is needed. The colour, the level of shine (or even lack of it doesn't detract). Even then the fabric on the second chair is probably the original material or at most has only been replaced once. I am not going to replace it, and while I do need to re-attached the loose braiding, that is all. I don't use this chair a lot and so hence it should remain fine for many years yet.

In respect of the balloon back, I bought a set of 4 from Victoria off ebay and while one of them had great colour and polish the other 3 were dull, lifeless and a dirty brown. That in itself was ok, but then my young cats (I know cats and antiques) when they were kittens and running around everywhere badly scratched this chair. The only way I figured I could repair the cedar was to strip back and re-polish. Now while it actually looks nice and feels good to the touch somehow it has lost part of its patina (the colour being light). I tend not to stain cedar and I will explain this in context of the table. I will at some stage need to get on and replace the fabric and bolster the cushion, but I will do this in one job as all 4 balloon backs require the same work done to them in this respect.

What I was saying re the table and staining is that, yes from the photo it probably looks really nice (rich colour) to most but to my eyes when close up, the finish is actually quite false, as a previous owner in restoring or having this table restored, over -restored the finish and it is quite evidently been stained too heavily. I am happy to live with this for the time being but eventually I think I probably will completely strip it back and re-polish it better, and with no stain, it has superb grain in it afterall. Mind you I only paid $26 for this table and had it delivered free to home from Melbourne so I am not complaining. It did have a broken leg when bought but I had this repaired locally and you can't tell unless you know where to look, such was the quality of the repair done.

To me antiques are meant to be used and enjoyed. I don't wish to have a museum, so damage will occur, but at least it can be repaired and they will live on well after I have left this world.

Ok, I am off my masterclass soap box and will get back to work, on the box over the weekend.

[Horsecroft88]

Back to the project box restoration. So given that the weather over the weekend was completely miserable, it was a good opportunity to get on with more work on this project. First off, I got on with sanding back the front face of the side of the box. Using carefully 120, 240 and 400 grade papers, and wiping/vacuming off the dust. Thereafter, as the photos will show, I shellaced using a brush for the first couple of coats. Once I had the base colour I was after, I changed over to the pad and continued to build up the coats. I cut back using 400 grade papers ever 3-4 coats, such by the time I was happy, it would have had perhaps as many as 10 coats + of shellac. At this point I put this part aside.

I then got on with the other long side of the box (the section which is still joined to the end side of the box). The photos will explain.

I first off tackled the inside as this was easier to do. Again I went through the same process as per above, except, given it is the inside, and the timber surface is more roughly finished off, I only used a brush and again as it is the inside only gave it around 6 coats, but still cutting back after the 3rd coat. I will next get on with the inside of the end part and as per above. Thereafter I need to sand back and shellac finish the outsides. I still also though need to clean up the handle, and will spray paint this matt black. If I can get the handle off this will make things easier, but if not I will need to clean up and paint insitu.

As the photos will show I still need to effect the small repair section, but a lack of any saws at home meant this was not possible to be done over the weekend. Must have all my various saws, including drop saw, circular saw etc out at the Country property.

Last off, I managed with quite a lot of paint stripping and use of coarse steel wool to clean up the section I will use for the plinth. Thereafter again a simple job to sand and shellac coat this. It too is now ready to be cut up to size.

Once all these last various jobs have been completed, I should be in a position to start re-constructing/glueing the box together. Thereafter, sort out the base (still not sure what timber to use here) and then lastly sort out the top. Hmn will leave this one for the moment. Apart from that then there is just some small jobs such as cleaning up the rusty lock-painting it, re-painting the hinges and to find a suitable escutcheon for the outside to dress it up. Lastly any small polishing repairs (if needed) and thereafter cutting back with extra fine steel wool and wax on wax off.

[Horsecroft88]

Have no sanded back and shellac coated the inside of the end piece, as per in the last photo (when not done). Will still need another cut back and a few more coats of shellac. In the meantime, I have acquired a mitre box and mitre saw to enable me to cut the plinth piece and mitre the corners correctly. In recognising what Lawry noted re the offcut skirting timber (not being cedar) and the grain not quite matching, I found a scrap piece of cedar and have now cut and fitted up (glued and pinned) the small missing triangle section. Photos taken and to be posted next week.

Once nice and strong, I will trim the edge to match the main side board (as it was a bit of a trial and error cut to fit) but as it is the bottom of the box and the floor will cover this, when also fitted up with the plinth, one really shouldn't notice any imperfections in the fit. Next off, time to cut up the plinth pieces and finish off sanding back and shellac finishing the outsides of the box.

From there, I think probably next job will be to start putting the main 4 sides of the box back together. This is where I will need the extra strong glue, plus some large sash clamps to hold it together as the glue drys and to ensure it is all square.

[Lawry01]

In recognising what Lawry noted re the offcut skirting timber (not being cedar) and the grain not quite matching, I found a scrap piece of cedar and have now cut and fitted up (glued and pinned) the small missing triangle section. Photos taken and to be posted next week.

Now I feel usefull...sort of!! Keep on going oh master shellac sensai!

[Horsecroft88]

Hey Lawry, mate you hold me in too high an esteem, and while happy to enjoy I am not really deserving of this. I too am but a mere apprentice, still learning all the time. I am glad you pointed the errors in my original thinking out to me.

So more sanding and shellac finishing of the outside of the side piece including the repair section were done last night. But to build the colour up some more, I will need to sand back both the outside sections and recoat before leaving until the final polishing stage.

I will admit my woodworking skills are fairly basic in regards to such repairs, such that after glueing and pining in the triangle piece I noted it was a little proud of the edge. Given I currently lack a proper workshop with bench and vice, it kind of makes it a little difficult cutting such repair sections by hand. Moreover, the old wood work plane I used to have was both a cheapy and totally blunt. Hence I had to very carefully chisel (with new chisels), edge to try to get it match the rest of the box. This worked ok, and while I probably could do better still, given that I will fix the bottom of the box to the box frame, any minor imperfections in the level shouldn't be a problem.

Ditto given that the repair section is lighter in colour than the main section, again given that the plinth should cover up most of this, again I am not too fussed. The main thing is that the repairs are reasonably ok, and strong.

[Horsecroft88]

I don't actually have an update on the cedar box, as I have been away for about a week in Sydney and have only got home in the last day or so. I am also on holidays for about another week, so all going well I will get some more progress done on this project, take photos and post as I can.

However, and there is always one of these, yesterday the other half spotted a large (no read very large) 7 drawer full cedar chest of drawers out at the local auction place here in Hobart. Again I would say it is early, though possibly not quite as early as my other large full cedar chest. The funny thing is she has never liked this early chest of drawers, I am not sure if it is because of the size (which would make little sense given the size of this other chest), so perhaps it is the design (though they are quite similar), except my current one is 6 drawers, so perhaps it is the grain. My current chest is fiddleback cedar fronts, flame on the sides and top, and with cross banding. This chest is all flame cedar. I will also post a couple of pics of the 6 drawer chest for comparison sakes.

Anyway, the strange thing was in her going back to Sydney (given she lives/works there), she suggested I should go out to the auctions, especially as the reserve was only $300.

Now I should explain. The top is separated from the carcass, it is missing all its feet and part of the plinth that sits proud of the base of the chest on one side was partially missing. The good news however, is that it appeared structurally very sound, it had all of its turned original blackwood handles, even if a couple are broken, most of the original locks and escutcheons (brass) plus best of all someone has already done all the hard work in stripping it clean. It must have been painted as you can see just the faintest traces of paint in a couple of areas. I have no idea how it was stripped, (possibly by hand - major hard work), it definitely hasn't been sanded using an orbital/circular electric sander, so possibly it was dipped as there was a lot of paint residue dust inside the drawers and the carcass. But normally dipping cedar from my experience is a huge no no

The long and the short of it is that it followed me home, having bought it for $340 plus buyers premium and a mate (antique dealer who I know and have bought quite a lot of furniture from) was able to deliver it to my home for free. Huge bonus as given its size/weight there was no way I could have done this by myself or in my relatively moderate size Alfa 156 wagon.

So I have cleaned up the carcass, had a look at the base underneath to see what I will need to do and taken some photos, which I will post later. I will need to repair a section of the base where the feet normally would sit in, I have cedar for this so that shouldn't be too much of a problem to sort out and I am going to need to find some feet (repros would be ok, but nicer if I could find some original type suitable for the chest). I also will need to replace two of the drawer handles (hopefully I can get someone to turn a couple up in blackwood, especially as I still need these for my other large cedar chest) and a couple of brass escutcheons. Apart from that, basically it needs a tidy up sanding and then my favourite part, shellac finishing with a wax polish at the end. I am certain this chest is going to look fantastic and at a fraction of the cost (about 1/6th) of what my other one cost.

What will I do in the end with two very large cedar chests, hmn not sure, but I suspect I am going likely be required to sell one. But that can wait for the moment.
I know, as if I really needed another large "project" . But I am afraid I couldn't resist and especially when given the green light by the other half. Now if only she could understand my need (no desire) for more classic Alfa Romeos !! Not bloody likely I hear her say, all the way from Sydney. Anyway, as I can between everything else I will make a start on this project and take photos and post, here on this thread, or alternatively perhaps start a new one, given how long this thread has become. People might be getting bored or perhaps sick of me posting such stuff. Hopefully not and it is of continued interest to some.