CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

[Beardy]

Yeah I have got to say I am struggling with this whole rules caper.

We are told told to stay at home and get fined for sitting in the park and yet non essential service shops are legally open for business .
I can legally go to the shops and buy a TV, lounge or some pillowcases but I can’t stand on my own on the beach or go for a non stop drive in my car.

[FenceFurniture]

You know of course that your Tax File Number is already an "Australia Card" on steroids?
Open a bank account -- quote your TFN or pay a penalty in the form of with holding tax
take out a credit card -- quote your TFN
buy shares in a company -- quote your TFN
apply for a passport -- 3 pieces of ID
buy a mobile phone -- 3 pieces of ID

Yes of course, but I'd hardly categorise that as on steroids...those activities are a far cry from a situation where we can be traced to the nearest 10 metres (or whatever it is), and with whom we are interacting.

I don't recall ever having to provide ID to buy a phone. Perhaps you mean for a SIM card (but I still haven't provided ID for that as I recall). My last phone was purchased from China, and they don't give a toss.

If the app was able to be deleted after the pandemic was finished that would be different and I'd be ok with helping, but I wonder if it will be like the ATO being made as a payee in bank accounts - can't be deleted.

As I understand it, the app uses Bluetooth. What is to stop BT being turned off, due to low battery power, if you catch my drift?

[Bushmiller]

Good one Doug.

Actually what that summary does do is highlight that this is largely uncharted territory as far as this particular virus is concerned and confirms that the decision makers in the government are closely related to chooks (spp. "headless").

Interestingly, I have just spent nearly three days in two different hospitals. There were both at about half capacity. The primary reason for this is the cancellation of elective surgery, but the ER wards were also devoid of customers. Those people that flock to the ER for questionable reasons were no longer there either: Just the genuine emergencies.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

BTW, all those point to point speed cameras are also tracking and speed checking all vehicles -- it's just that fines are not (yet?) being issued to vehicles other than trucks.

They have been used for cars in Vic for years. There has been one a little west of here at Hartley for at least 3 years to the best of my memory, and I've driven through others in NSW. (I'm talking about for cars)

[BobL]

I'm not concerned if most people don't download the app, or defeat a phone tracking system by switching phones off or leaving phones at home but in practice it won't matter much. The Depts of Health people know a certain proportion of the population will do this but only need mobile phones to be active on about 40% of the population (actually it's less than this, eg Singapore with 20%, that but they won't be trumpeting this) to be of some value.

I'm still in two minds about the whole thing, less so about because of the privacy aspects and more so regarding authorities being too reliant on the app, eg cutting down on the number of trackers, and on the proportion of people loading the app to make lockdown changes to. ie not enough phones have taken this up so we're going to extend the lockdowns.

In the meantime I finally know someone who has had COVID19, a distant relative in his late 80's who lives in a retirement home in Milan. He only had a mild case and has recovered. Most of the residents in the retirement home came down with it and several died and he counts himself lucky.

[BobL]

If anyone feels capable of contribution to tech/management/design/Fab of COV19 related equipment/logsistics/solutions/quick fixes etc you might want to check this our

Mobilise Aus COV19 Onboarding

Got my first request for info from a member of this group this morning. Team of blokes making/adapting compressors and ventilators for use in sub-Saharan Africa needing advice about air filtration.

[Glider]

I also think the tracking app is a great idea. The part that puzzles me is that, in the light of bleeding obvious, why hasn't the government provided an iron clad guarantee that the app would be taken down when the current crisis ends. All I've heard and read is that the data will remain anonymous unless an infectious contact is indicated. At that point, the mac numbers are matched and the origin identified and contacted.

We now have a super department which controls the AFP and three of the four national security (read "spy") agencies which is quite a departure from the original guidelines established by Justice Robert Hope after the 1974 Royal Commission into the security services.

How many freedoms are we prepared to give up to organisations claiming to preserve our freedom? One of which, raided a journalist's home on the basis of an illegal warrant. Another allowed the Ruby Princess to unload its full complement of passengers.

mick

[FenceFurniture]

why hasn't the government provided an iron clad guarantee that the app would be taken down when the current crisis ends.

Perhaps because Dutton doesn't want it taken down?

One of which, raided a journalist's home on the basis of an illegal warrant.

AND they were allowed to keep the documents they seized illegally - how the bloody hell does THAT work? It's akin to "You have been found guilty of stealing the jewels, but you can keep them".

[doug3030]

Yes of course, but I'd hardly categorise that as on steroids...those activities are a far cry from a situation where we can be traced to the nearest 10 metres (or whatever it is)...

That information is already recorded for every mobile phone in the world. It's use is limited by the sheer volume of data that is available and a reluctance to admit that it is all there and useable. The relevant authorities can and do gain access to it if the matter is serious enough. I imagine that the app would be an aid to "sorting" the data to make it quicker to isolate the relevant bits for this purpose.

[woodPixel]

For those who consider their freedoms, remember that the government enacted extraordinary temporary powers to deal with terrorism...

19 years ago.....

[Bushmiller]

I heard on the radio (Radio National) a few moments ago that Scomo has announced there are no plans to make the tracking app compulsory. Of course, that may be different to saying that it will not be made compulsory. I suspect the ability to enforce it is impractical in any event.

Regards
Paul

[NeilS]

Perhaps because Dutton doesn't want it taken down?

... or Pezzullo.

The power behind the throne also needs to be considered when voluntarily handing over our data.
Hmm... that may have just triggered a call up flag on my ASIO file...

[FenceFurniture]

... or Pezzullo.

The power behind the throne also needs to be considered when voluntarily handing over our data.

Yes indeed.

Scomo has announced there are no plans to make the tracking app compulsory. Of course, that may be different to saying that it will not be made compulsory.

It's just the usual classic hole to be used later if they do decide to make it compulsory.





Anyway, thanks for all the responses to that little sub-topic (not that I've seen all of them - not even tag-teaming will work these days)

[Glider]

For those who consider their freedoms, remember that the government enacted extraordinary temporary powers to deal with terrorism...

19 years ago.....

Truth to tell, I'm not unhappy with their success rate catching extremists since then.

I don't think they've latched onto my master plan to force the government to ban all power tools sold with different sized dust outlets, legislate to have all measuring devices produced in Hi-Viz colours and declaring all woodworking tools tax deductible for amateurs.

mick

p.s. I may be coming down with shed fever...

[FenceFurniture]

Updated at about 1:10 this arvo
Coronavirus app will not be forced upon Australians, Scott Morrison says - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Morrison: "The app we are working on to help our health workers trace people who have been in contact with coronavirus will not be mandatory," he said.



Pretty obvious they were watching this thread.