Kitchen benchtop finishing

[vsquizz]

I was just assuming that people did not know how to spell the thing, very very common for chemicals, and used the spelling that Neil used in his post.

Exactly what I thought at first until I did some research. But don't take my word for it. I'm just reading datasheets. I don't have a definitive reference although one of the on-line dictionarys did list both products separatley.

Cheers

[PAH1]

Squizz

MSDS sheets take the fuzziness out of it for sure, they must refer to the actual contents of the article, usually they are really required to be batch specific ie a new one refering to each new batch. That is generally regarded as a pile of crock for us but for some things it may be needed. One of my problems was trying to think how the heck they got those metal salts dissolved in organic solvent, there are ways of doing it but not easily.

[ubeaut]

Sorry to burst any bubbles but TEREBENE is: A paint and varnish dryer consisting of linseed oil, natural resin, and salts of lead and manganese thinned with turpentine. Also known as Terebine

Maybe there has been a change in the formula but not that I know of.

Like I have said in earlier posts. Don't believe everything you find in MSDS's.

Dewy - I'm not knocking your mates oil. The recipe he gave you, is a really good oil polish but it isn't Danish oil. It is an old fashioned traditional type of oil that has been used in various forms for a very long time. Danish oil was, as I said originally based on spar varnish and is now generally based on polyurethane, some of the better ones also have tung oil in them whilst the more ordinary ones are basically no more than poly, linseed and turps. There's a bit more to it, but basically that is how danish oil is made.
Cheers - Neil

[Wildman]

I was planning on using Cabots CFP single pack satin poly with the hardness additives on my blue gum benchtops to give a very strong durable finish (when they finally arrive...). It worked wonders on a rough cut coffee table made from old weathered hardwood. Any opinions on this for or against?

Cheers
Wildman

[vsquizz]

Wildman, I'm with Midge back on the first page. The poly is good if you like the look but its a bugger to repair. I like the oils for a spruce up once a year and a natural look. Whatever rings ya bell really.

I rebuilt a section of friends kitchen with a granite top around the sink area and a farm bench type table top made up of hardwood timber offcuts all laminated together and finished in tung oil. It gets a rough sand and clean up once a year and people walk in and say "oh you have a new bench". Some women don't like the timber finish.

Butcher down the road has thrown out all the plastic from his butchery and brought back in his jarrah cutting blocks..had a fight with the health inspector and told the health dept to prove that au natural timber was worse than plastic. That was about a year ago and he's still using his tree trunk chopping block.
Cheers

[Wildman]

My concern with the oils in the kitchen was the underside. I have seen solid timber benchtops where the underside was not properly sealed and over time they bowed up as the underneath absorbed water. The kitchen is not the dryest place around. The timber being used is 50 year old re-machined timber that should be completely dry and stable as long as I can seal it properly. How would you seal the underside if oiling the top for the best longevity?

I have sanded and patched a few major scratches in our hardwood floors with reasonable success with CFP. I am also relatively against having to oil regularly but I suppose once a year would be OK. I am about to re-danish oil a large bookshelf immediately after moving house. I am not looking forward to that, I originally did the whole thing in pieces, it is 2400Hx1500Wx220D now and not the easiest thing to work with.

Cheers
Wildman

[PAH1]

Sorry to burst any bubbles but TEREBENE is: A paint and varnish dryer consisting of linseed oil, natural resin, and salts of lead and manganese thinned with turpentine. Also known as Terebine

Maybe there has been a change in the formula but not that I know of.

Like I have said in earlier posts. Don't believe everything you find in MSDS's.

Hi Neil

Sorry to say but an MSDS from a major supplier is really going to list all the harmful stuff in it, where they are fuzzy is frequently the concentration of the things that are in it. I would not like to be on the end of an accident where a falsified one was supplied. Lead has been banned as a paint additive for nearly as long as I am old, from memory in the 70's but it could have been earlier. I rang feast watson this morning and confirmed that no lead was formulated in their terebine, however the msds was cryptic in what it actually had in it aside from being lead free, they also sell it as Terebine.

I checked again yesterday on chemwatch for terebine, listed as a siccative with Manganese and Cobalt compounds, but there are a whole stack of other potential ones, Barium, Vanadium, Calcium, Zinc and Zirconium reffered to as R38. Of all the Australian MSDS sheets listed (5) one refered to terebene as a synonym. However no MSDS sheet or chemical list refered to polymeric terpenes (Terebene) as being synonym of terebine ie the metal compounds. I would not use the cobolt and manganese on anything that got near food, although a benchtop or tabletop would be alright.


What we have here is definitively poor usage of terminology, several terms being used interchangeably when they are not really. My question now is does the original terebene work as a drier or not?

Back on track there is nothing stopping you from finishing the underside of a bench in the same oil. You just may not have to refinish it as frequently.

For more info on driers etc see

health assessment of driers

[Squidda]

Thanks for the feedback and glad to generate some discussion for those that seem to be right into it.

I did consider using Danish oil but recently made a hall table out of recycled hardwood that recieved about 6 coats of Cabot's Danish Oil. tends to mark very easily. Covered in marks and its a hall table that just sits there doing nothing. But it is easy to "repair".

had also thought about CFP with the additive as mentioned by wildman but was worried about it 'yellowing'. As for repairing polyurethane, i don't mind sanding and recoating every couple of years.

Most benchtop manufacturers offer to finish the tops in 2 pak. Went to a few stores and could only find Wattyl (7008 i think). Any good? Can it be brushed on or do you need to use a lambs wool applicator as they recommend. They recommend the applicator washed out in a particular wattyl product after each use. Otherwise use a new applicator for each coat but this gets expensive at about $17 each.

Cheers and thanks
Squidda

[PeterR]

This is my first visit & therefore my first reply. (which is why I'm replying to an 'administrator')
I came here with an enquiry similar but not exactly like the one here.
I would like to have laminated timber benches in my kitchen, but only if I can avoid 2-Pac.
An oiled finish of some type is the look and feel that I had in mind.
The biggest concern that I had doesn't seem to have been mentioned. That is the issue of cross contamination or basic bug breeding in the timber itself.
I seem to have heard somewhere that there are certain timber types that have inherent antibacterial qualities. I will do serious food prep on separate plastic chopping boards or on a freestanding 'Peer Sorensen' (I hope this is allowed) chopping block. This is more than 10 years old now and just looks better with age, which was the reason behind me thinking of the more natural (and imperfect look) of timber benches.
Sorry. Back to the question.
1. Are there any timber types that are naturally more 'antibacterial'.
2. Are there any of the oils that have been mentioned that will help is this department.
Thanks in anticipation,
(hope I didn't break too many rules)
regards,
Peter

[bitingmidge]

Peter,
An observation from a food prep perspective rather than a scientific response:

As a rule, bacteria need moisture and warmth to reproduce, timber is porous and naturally holds moisture...the more porous the more "bacteria friendly". If there are any reagents in a timber species which limit bacterial growth, then they are likely to leach out of the surface eventually anyway given the sort of use and constant moisture used in a kitchen benchtop.

Filling the pores with a stable product (Danish Oil) will reduce or eliminate the ability of the timber to hold moisture...hence problem (mostly) goes away!

Cheers,

P (by no means an expert)

[PeterR]

Thanks very much for the quick reply.
Just to update on some of my searching today.
After calling Cabot/ Feast Watson they suggested I try Organoil.
Organoil's web page says of their Danish Oil; NOT for FLOORING or BENCHTOP use. (their caps not mine)
They have another product called 'Hard Burnishing Oil';

"Suitable for powered-disc operation, hand-rubbed and on-lathe
finishing. Based on genuine, unmodified Tung Nut Oil, providing for
excellent sealing, efficient drying and handling durability. Geared for
minimal darkening/yellowing though still delivers light, natural colour
enhancement. Following drying, is least likely to taint foods cut on
or served in (chopping boards, bowls etc.)."

This seems to be the closest I've found so far.
I still wish I could find out what the chopping block timbers are.
I'll keep trying and let you (all) know if I find anything.
thanks again, cheers,
Peter

Peter,
An observation from a food prep perspective rather than a scientific response:

As a rule, bacteria need moisture and warmth to reproduce, timber is porous and naturally holds moisture...the more porous the more "bacteria friendly". If there are any reagents in a timber species which limit bacterial growth, then they are likely to leach out of the surface eventually anyway given the sort of use and constant moisture used in a kitchen benchtop.

Filling the pores with a stable product (Danish Oil) will reduce or eliminate the ability of the timber to hold moisture...hence problem (mostly) goes away!

Cheers,

P (by no means an expert)

[sandant]

hi guys

sorry to butt in here but a very interesting topic who would know it could be so complicated to finish a kitchen benchtop or for that matter get advice on it.
Im about to do my own benchtop and am looking for the same advice but on old tounge and groove hoop pine flooring.

so let i would be interested in finding out how the Organoil turns out or the comments about it.

[journeyman Mick]

I've been told by an old timbercutter that they used to use paperbark - Melaleuca Leucadendron for butcher's blocks as it had natural anti-bacterial qualities. A close relative the Ti-tree-Melaleuca Alternifolia is used for oil production, this oil is prized for its anti-bacterial qualities.

Mick

[TassieKiwi]

another 20c worth:

Danish oil is a wiping varnish - a varnish with a larger oil content than normal, with maybe tung as well. It is the application method that reduces the final thickness of the finish, but what you end up with once cured is - varnish. Much nicer that 2-pac, though

As to what you put under the benchtop - whatever goes on top, must go underneath. Otherwise you certainly will be askong for warping problems, as the underside of teh benchtop will absorb moisture. You don't have to apply the finish to the same standard as the top - just make sure that the surface is sealed.

I used 'Briwax' danish oil, after trying many others, on my NZ heart Rimu benchtops. They still look fantastic after 3 yrs of use, and haven't had any re-application. They do mark - if you want mirror finish forever, get cold ol' granite, or smother it in that thick plastic goo that they use on souvenir clocks

[PeterR]

With regard to my question about the timber properties, I found this very interesting link in the \ GENERAL \ TIMBER section of this site

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...read.php?t=775

thanks again
Peter