no anzac day holliday

[glen boulton]

clearly i'm not alone...thank god
glEn boulTon

[ian]

That's what I mean about the emotive clap trap. It's an attempt to guilt you out of the viewpoint by suggesting that wanting or expecting a public holiday is some how offensive to the memory of the ANZACs. It's bollocks. What I don't understand is why. It makes no difference to how people will commemorate ANZAC day. As far as I'm concerned, this is an industrial relations issue plain and simple.

Maybe someone could explain why they think a public holiday would actually be detrimental? Help us understand your viewpoint logically instead of trying to make us feel ashamed.

Silent

are you a school teacher?

I ask because the incompetant (insert suitable expletive) who run the department decided 3 or 4 years ago that because ANZAC day fell on a Saturday this year the following Monday would be a public holiday -- so as gazetted Term 2 this year starts on Tuesday April 28 which at my local school is a pupil free day so in effect the kids don't go back till Wednesday — I'm waiting to see what speed the school zone speed cameras ping people for next Monday.
I'll add that the current crop of incompetants are likely no worse than the last lot who, when introducing the current 4 term year, confidently stated that Easter would always fall within the school holiday period – wrong !! as anyone with a little understanding of simple maths and a reasonable degree of general knowledge could have can worked out.


but back to your question ...

for me ANZAC day is Australia's only true national day. It represents the first time Australians as a nation did anything significant on the world stage and it carries no overtones of racial discrimination or oppression — which some groups attach to Australia day nor is the significance duplicated or replicated in individual states on different dates. (see below)
As such it should be celebrated on the actual day, not the nearest convient Monday.
I remember the time when the country effectively stopped to remember, to reflect, to recommitt itself to the ideals that the ANZACS fought for.
and I regret that for too many the day has become just another opportunity to make money from the "mug punter" — the group I'm most dark about is corporate sport (NRL, AFL, etc.) who justify games on ANZAC day by donating the paltry gate receipts to the RSL (or another charity) while all the while they are rolling in the revenue from corporate advertising and media rights.

So the public holiday should be the day (Saturday this year) and any retailing should be restricted to the afternoon or (my preference) banned altogether. So no substitute day.
Only when ANZAC day falls on a Sunday do we as a predominately Christian culture have a conflict. Then it is appropriate to reserve Sunday for church and to commenorate ANZAC day on Monday.



The whole country might get a day off for Australia day – which historically was celebrated on the last or penultimate weekend in January and in NSW at least marked the end of the Summer School Holidays.
But if you live in SA, ACT, WA, (and for all I know Vic, Qld, NT and Tassie) you get a local "first settlement day" holiday as well.
And for some, 26 Jan represents Invasion Day — not something they want to celebrate.



ian

[ian]

we had at a mirvac job and a saftey officer ask for a SWMS and a MSDS on our carpenter pencils as they contain lead and they were a hazzardards material. so we had a designated rubbish bin lined with hazard material labeled plastic bags removed daily from site. it was absured.
so now days it is just habit to me.

and you fell for this crap?

as far as I know, if lead pencils ever contained lead it was before about 1750!

since then "lead" pencils only contained graphite (= pure carbon) and more recently a carbon based polymer



ian

[glen boulton]

hey ian
good pick up... and here is a linck to the one we tried to submit
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/resources...ter_Pencil.pdf

but it was not accepted and the saftey officer on site sets the rules. so for the sake of working and not "going there" with an ex BLF organiser. we just did what he asked. after all it is no skin off our nose and we had stated in our contract that any special conditions forced by "on site requirements" will be charged out as an extra to the contract.
so we did what he said and we charged accoringly. both sides happy...it was just alot of faxes , emails, phone calls and lost time in our office.
so yes we conceded to this crap
but no we didn't fall for it... we tried to fight first...
glen boulton

[Lignin]

Ian,
As a teacher, please write out 100 times,
IncompetEnt.(Once is a typo, twice, an error!!)
Sorry to be pedantic, but this thread is so far off topic, I couldn't help myself.

[silentC]

As such it should be celebrated on the actual day, not the nearest convient Monday.

The last time it fell on a Sunday was 1976, so I can't remember what happened then, but according to the Council for the Australian Federation:

One of the issues addressed by CAF was ANZAC Day. ANZAC Day is recognised nationally on 25 April each year as an occasion of national commemoration. All States and Territories have legislation that prescribes ANZAC Day as a public holiday. While ANZAC Day is always commemorated on 25 April, there are varied legislative approaches to whether the public holiday is observed on the following Monday (i.e. a long weekend) when ANZAC Day falls on a Sunday.

I think the day itself should always be commemorated on the 25th, even when it falls on a Sunday. The church thing doesn't wash for me. I'm fairly certain that next year it will be commemorated on the Sunday with the public holiday on the Monday. I don't really see the difference in the circumstances of it falling on a Saturday, but then I'm not a Christian.

I'm simply talking about whether workers should get a substitute public holiday to compensate for the fact that a gazetted public holiday falls on a weekend. I still fail to see how that detracts from the commemoration itself.

Do you think pubs and clubs should be closed all day too? They make a lot of money from mug punters on ANZAC day. Someone has to staff them. Seems a bit hypocritical to tell retailers they have to close their doors but allow pubs and clubs to stay open. What about cab drivers and public transport? Are they allowed to make money on the day?

I think it should be a decision for the business itself whether to stay open or not. Staff should be paid public holiday rates.

[Christopha]

Emotive claptrap, Doorstop. Why doesn't it surprise me that you would go off half-cocked?

So you'll be going to work on Monday the 26th next year will you?

Wood Boner has hit the nail on the head.

Half cocked? I'll have you know it is complete!

Oh, and YES, I probably will be working on the 26th next year. Unlike some here I have to work for a living. I am self employed, I am my only employee and if I don't work I don't get paid, holiday or no holiday.
I can't see why people expect to be paid for doing F@#$ all. If you want a day off for then fine, take the day off but just don't expect to be paid for work you didn't do. That's dishonest isn't it? Sort of like theft?
Stuff it. Now I'm late for work.....
Bye!

[ian]

Lignin
I know I can't spell and I have a certificate to prove it
but because you asked nicely ...
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ian

[silentC]

I can't see why people expect to be paid for doing F@#$ all.

You reckon they don't factor public holidays in to pay rates like they do with every other type of leave? Salary = Daily rate * (365 - weekends - public holidays - annual leave - sick leave). I'm the one who is being ripped off!

[ian]

The last time it fell on a Sunday was 1976, so I can't remember what happened then,

in 1976, If I recall correctly...

• I was in 3rd year at uni and living in Sydney
• there was no general Sunday trading — city pubs were closed and if a country pub was open you had to "prove" you were a traveller to gain admittance
• most shops and garages were closed on Sunday – if you hadn't bought it (including petrol) on Saturday, then you had to wait till Monday to get it
• in Sydney there were only 2 or 3 "shopping malls" (Roselands and Myer at Burwood are the two I recall) and these were closed
• 25 April 1976 was only a few months after the "dismissal" of Whitlam and the election of Fraser
• ANZAC day was a very quite day

I'm simply talking about whether workers should get a substitute public holiday to compensate for the fact that a gazetted public holiday falls on a weekend.

is this the nub?
a sense of withdrawn entitlement because this year Saturday is the gazetted holiday?

so my question to you Silent is this ...

do you consider Public Holidays a right or a privilage ?

for me ...
we live in a notionally christian society so we get the major christian celebrations as holidays
if our society wasn't notionally christian we shouldn't expect to get these days




ian

[Big Shed]

You reckon they don't factor public holidays in to pay rates like they do with every other type of leave? Salary = Daily rate * (365 - weekends - public holidays - annual leave - sick leave). I'm the one who is being ripped off!

But "entitlements" work both ways, don't they?

Just as you are "entitled" to have your public holiday, so is your boss "entitled" to get the number of hours of work he pays you for every single working day.

Can you say with your hand on your heart that he does indeed get his "entitlement"?

[silentC]

is this the nub?
a sense of withdrawn entitlement because this year Saturday is the gazetted holiday?

That is exactly it and I thought I expressed that on page one of this thread: "The boss is getting an extra day for free out of me this year."

do you consider Public Holidays a right or a privilage ?

I consider them a right. They are engraved in legislation - my employer must give me the day off with full pay if they fall on a day I would normally work. Thus they are factored into my salary just like all other forms of leave.

The actual reason for the holiday is a separate issue. I don't celebrate Easter (other than eating too much chocolate) but the Bank Holidays act says that I get the Friday and Monday off with full pay. Same with Christmas, Boxing Day, Labor Day, Queens Birthday etc.

I'm aware there is an element of hypocrisy associated with taking these days even though I don't observe the traditions, however, under my award I am entitled to them, why shouldn't I take them?

If the government decides to abolish public holidays, I'll be fine with that, as long as the extra working days are reflected in my salary. Fair is fair.

[silentC]

Can you say with your hand on your heart that he does indeed get his "entitlement"?

Some days they get 6 hours, some days 8, some days 10. Swings and roundabouts. If they are unhappy with my output, they have recourse. Yes I spend too much time here arguing with you good people

My issue is not with them, they are very good employers and give me everything they are required to and more. Actually I don't really have an issue, I'm not losing sleep over it. I was asked indirectly for my opinion and I have given it

[Big Shed]

Just as some years Anzac Day falls on a Friday and some years on a Saturday.

Swings and roundabouts.

[silentC]

Which is why I'm not losing any sleep over it. But when have you ever known me not to have an opinion on something?