Kitchen benchtop finishing

[Squidda]

Hi all

I have just put together some laminated Vic Ash kitchen benchtops and am after some opinions as to the best way to seal/finish them. I guess any finish should be resistant to water, oil heat etc.

Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
squidda

[Shane Watson]

Technically no finish is 'resistant' to water, oil, heat etc........

However some finish's are much better than others. If it were me, being a bench top in a kitchen I wouldn't even use timber but if I did I'd probably go for a 2pk poly-u industrial coating. Thats going to give you the best protection agaisn't chemicals, heat, water etc but its restrictive in the seasonal movement catogory compared to 1pk polyu....

[westpest]

Hey Squidda

I made Jarrah benchtops in my kitchen about two years ago along with a large island workbench and it has all been finished with Rustins Danish Oil. There is to date no visible marking at all on the benchtops and the workbench gets a coat every three months or so. The oil is very durable and it only needs a wipe if something is spilled on it. SWMBO regularly puts hot things down on all surfaces and still it shines through. Be prepared to give it plenty of coats, mine had about a dozen over a two week period before installation. It has to be the easiest finish to apply also, just wipe it on and wipe of the excess 15 to 20 minutes later.And as for not using timber in a kitchen who would choose Melamine over natural timber given the choice(and if cost was not a factor}...

DanF

[bitingmidge]

What westpest says!

I've used PolyU as per Shane's suggestion on a table, and it was ok, but think if you want wood that looks like plastic, use melamine.

I've used Epoxy floated on in about five coats, wet and dried and cut back to a satin finish, and it was OK too, but an awful lot of work. Hard as the hobs of Hell though, but not particularly heat resistant, and trust me, you don't want to have to sand it off to start again!

Danish Oil will build up a durable food safe finish that's easy to repair and feels like timber. I'm too lazy to recoat every few months, (and have a granite top so don't need to! ) but even once a year will be fine, and you it really is as easy as wiping the bench with a damp rag.

Cheers,

P

[Dewy]

Danish oil should never be used on food preparation surfaces.
It's toxic and uses white spirit as the thinners.
I wouldn't fancy having white spirit in my food, would you?
There are oils made specifically for kitchen tops which contain no toxins.

Here is the recipe for Danish oil given by an old cabinet maker years ago to a guy with his own business making bespoke desks for high flying city types in London.
TUNG oil, Linseed oil (non-boiled), a good quality PURE white spirit, and 1 teaspoon of TEREBENE per 1/2 pint of mixture.. (to assist in the drying process-speeds things up a bit)

How about corn oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil, poppy seed oil, or even rapeseed oil for finishing products that come into contact with food, i.e. salad bowls, cutting blocks?

[bitingmidge]

Danish oil should never be used on food preparation surfaces.
It's toxic and uses white spirit as the thinners.
I wouldn't fancy having white spirit in my food, would you?
There are oils made specifically for kitchen tops which contain no toxins.

Usually we wait till the finish has cured before rolling our food over it!! I suspect that not all Danish oils are the same?

Once the polymerisation process has completed, I understand that the stuff becomes quite inert. There have been comprehensive writings on the performance of materials in food environments, which is how I started using Danish Oil in the first place. I'll try to fish out a reference.

I can't begin to imagine what toxins go into making melamine, but have never had a problem eating off that either.

Cheers,


P

[ubeaut]

G'day Dewy - Personally I'd be more worried about the terebene (a metallic dryer), linseed (which can go rancid) and tung than the White Spirit, it at least evaporates off, the others don't.

Your old cabinet maker may have called it a recipe for Danish oil, but it is more like a Scandinavian oil. As a Danish Oil recipe it would have been a dismal failure. Most Danish is basically watered down polyurethane (originally watered down spar or oil varnish). It is only toxic in its liquid form.

I think you will find, your corn oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil, poppy seed oil, and rapeseed oil are far more dangerous for the suggested use as they will all go rancid, not only that, but they offer absolutely no protection what so ever to the surface of the bench.

Cheers - Neil

[PAH1]

- Personally I'd be more worried about the terebene (a metallic dryer), [/b]

Heil, are you sure that terebene is metallic? According to several other sources it, at least once upon a time, was a polymeric terpene.

[Dewy]

ubeaut, the person who gave us that recipe would be horrified at your comment that Danish oil is made with varnish or polyeurethane.
He has his own business with many employees and hates varnish and polyeurethane and always oils everything he makes.
We have a lot of good hearted banter between those who use oil and varnish.
Tung oil is infinitely better as it comes from tung nuts and is natural, non toxic, sometimes known as china wood oil and is a constituent of most wood oils and is one of the most resilient finishes known

[PAH1]

I think that most of the modern commercial "Danish oils" are exactly what Neil says. It is buried a bit in the recipe but it is there on many. The bottom line is that if you want a real oil finish either make your own or buy from a company that expressly states that it does not have it in eg organoil, although I am sure there are others. I am not sure how Neil's hard shellac would go on a kitchen bench both for wear resistance and protection but it is a possibility, not intending criticism here he does list what his cross linkers are either.

[lyctus]

Nonetheless Dewy, Danish Oil must have spar varnish in it to be Danish OIl, otherwise it is something else. Full stop. All the comments about the toxicity in the solvent and its effect on food are valid to my understanding. Once the product has dried (i.e., the carriers have evaporated) then it is basically inert and safe. I have used a number of commercially produced "danish oils" and I have to say that they are not all equal. The one DanF the Westpest used is the top perfomer,certainly of the ones that I have used - IMHO.
Hey Neil, have you got anything cooking in this direction ?

[Bunyip]

Heil, are you sure that terebene is metallic? According to several other sources it, at least once upon a time, was a polymeric terpene.

PAH1 - the terebine of today consists of manganese and cobalt salts in mineral terpentine. Cobalt has been classified by the IARC as possibly carcinogenic to humans. As far as I know, it was always based on metallic salts to catalyse the polymerisation process (speed up drying).

[PAH1]

As far as I know, it was always based on metallic salts to catalyse the polymerisation process (speed up drying).

According to chemwatch a commercial database on chemicals and their hazards (listing all publicly available MSDS sheets) all terebene is the following. No hits were seen for metals, and if cobalt was in it it really would be listed seeing as though it is such a nice metal.

PRODUCT NAME:

TEREBENE
SYNONYMS

terebenum

PROPER SHIPPING NAME

TERPENE HYDROCARBONS, N.O.S.

PRODUCT USE

Obtained by shaking turpentine oil with sulfuric acid, added in successive small
quantities and distilling the separated product in a current of steam. Used as a
rubefacient and is employed as a liniment for rheumatic pain and stiffness. Aromatic
ingredient of some pastilles. Imparts oil and water resistance to cellulosics.

SUPPLIER

[vsquizz]

The topic of composition of various finishes always creates some discussion. There is some discussion relevant to this thread here;

http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/...4&page=1&pp=15

I have also noted the varying spelling of Terebine, Terebene and terebin (as it appears in this forum and elsewhere)

I thought on of those was a turtle but I guess this would be the spelling we are talking about in finishing as per here; for "Terebine"

http://www.spencercoatings.co.uk/inc...rces-06TED.pdf

and MSDS from Feast Watson here:

http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-c...0000001281.pdf

I also found this for Terebene

Ter´e`bene
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap>n.</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.</TD><TD>(Chem.) A polymeric modification of terpene, obtained as a white crystalline camphorlike substance; - called also <ALTNAME>camphene</ALTNAME>. By extension, any one of a group of related substances.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

It would seem to me that Terebine and Terebene are in their commercial form different products. I just a mug at this though.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[PAH1]

I have also noted the varying spelling of Terebine, Terebene and terebin (as it appears in this forum and elsewhere)

It would seem to me that Terebine and Terebene are in their commercial form different products. I just a mug at this though.

I was just assuming that people did not know how to spell the thing, very very common for chemicals, and used the spelling that Neil used in his post.