New attic ladder

[jackiew]

the fitter is meant to call me ... i'm still waiting ... sigh.... it shouldn't be this difficult.

what they don't know is that I have a policy of actively recommending against businesses which don't perform... and I've got a very long memory. when I say actively recommending against I mean it .... I will butt into private conversations on the train where the appropriate "trigger" word has been mentioned and say "do not use company x", I will start conversations at barbecues purposely to tell people not to use company x. There is a particular prefabricated garage company in the UK that I must have made 2000+ personal recommendations against using . I have to have lost them at least one customer ... and as their garages are not cheap I will have cost them more than it would have cost them to fix the problem.

I also have a policy of actively recommending for businesses, tradesmen that I have good experiences with.

I really don't understand why businesses don't get to grips with the idea that you can stuff up and still end up with a happy customer who will recommend you ... but only if you are prepared to acknowledge there is a problem and do something about it.

Add the short cuts in the installation to the fact that the ladder doesn't face the way I wanted it to ( the sales guy said there was room for it and the fitter said there wasn't ) and it just barely touches the carpet ( and the salesman said there wouldn't be a problem if I took up the carpet at a later date and polished the boards ... ) they've got a customer who really isn't a happy rabbit. :mad:

[echnidna]

Jackie,
print out your last post and send it to the firm.

maybe they will get the message

[ndru]

...it just barely touches the carpet ( and the salesman said there wouldn't be a problem if I took up the carpet at a later date and polished the boards)

My understanding is that the feet of the ladder must be flush with the surface of the floor all the time or else the bottom section will not be secure because the hinges are not in their fully locked position. Looks like you can add "misrepresentation" and "reckless disregard for personal safety" to your list of grievances.

Any chance of mentioning the company's name here on the forum?

the fitter is meant to call me

My experience with fitters is that they can barely get past grunts and clicks as a means of communication. You'll need to allow some time for them to realise that the telephone handpiece can be used for so much more than just hunting game and mashing yams...

PS. To all the fitters out there - that was a joke, you can laugh now

[soapbox /ON] Seriously, though, is it any wonder why more and more people are DIY'ing when stories like this keep cropping up? [soapbox /OFF]

[bob w]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackiew
[B]

I really don't understand why businesses don't get to grips with the idea that you can stuff up and still end up with a happy customer who will recommend you ... but only if you are prepared to acknowledge there is a problem and do something about it.

Jackie this is called honesty and integrity and unfortunately too few companies display either of these attributes. Did you find out if the actual installer was licenced or was he using the companies qualifications?
I know I originally recommended against it but you may have to involve fair trading if you get no satisfaction. Some tradies (and not just the building ones) seem to treat females and young people like idiots and dismiss their concerns and questions with absolute disdain. go get 'em kid!
Bob:mad:

[journeyman Mick]

Jackie,
Am I right in assuming that there are no licensing requirements for this work in Victoria? In Qld all building work must be carried out by appropriately licensed contractors and while I reckon that all the paperwork that they require is a royal pain in the @rse I can see that in cases like yours they are a neccesity (just a pity that a few bad eggs make life hard for the rest of us). If there is a licensing authority then you need to get in touch with them and tell them of your problems.

Mick

[Bob Willson]

Jackie, Jackie, are you there Jackie?

What was the final outcome of this Jackie? Did they fix it all up to your satisfaction or did you have to do something nasty to them?

[jackiew]

fitter eventually came out.

Was expecting (in my naievty (sp) ) him to remove the hatch, fit packing,refit hatch.

What he actually did was to hammer pieces of wood into the worst of the gaps.

Had the choice of then going through the process of complaining again or sorting it out myself. Wimped out .

Have had a colleague ask me what I thought of the company as they were planning to get a new loft ladder. Needless to say the company concerned didn't get my recommendation.

I am currently doing a timber framing course at the local tafe ( keeps me off of the streets ). I am going to seek advice from the instructors about the best way to rectify the job.

[Marc]

Jackie, I'm sorry about your tradesman trouble, I am a chronic renovator and deal with trades on a regular basis and fire them on a just as regular basis. Unfortunatley trademanship pride is somehow a thing of the past.

Unless you are prepaired to take the company up through the ACCC, the local building authority or the council, I would be looking for my own remedy.
One question perhaps Mick can answer better than me since I'm not sure I can "see" the problem: can additional trimmers be added to the first, this time cut at appropriate lenght and screwed to the intial trimmer and the ceiling joists as a reinforcement?

It may be your 2 bob's solution.

Afterwards you are welcome to build a vodoo doll and use your nailgun on it. I suggest 16 gage 60mm bradders on the upper and lower limbs.

Nee only kidding, forgive and forget ... but only if you can fix it easy

[jackiew]

ta marc, think you are right about the extra trimmers for one bit of the problem.

I'm sure there are lots of tradesmen out there who do a fantastic job and others who just do the bare minimum they can get away with ... its the same in every industry including the industry that I work in ... the software industry!!!

[Barry_White]

One of the biggest problems with a lot of these companys that they use sub contractors as all the good carpenters are usually working for themselves so they put an ad in the paper calling for subcontractors and they get people who aren't tradesmen but have a few tools and they show them how to install their product over about a week and then send them out on their own but they have never had the benefits or the diciplines that a tradesman gets through an apprenticeship.

The biggest problem today is there are no big company's putting on apprentices, they just employ subcontract carpenters and other tradesmen and because they are flat out making money they don't have the time or the inclination to train apprentices. That is why there is a shortage of tradesmen especially in these times of a building boom and you have to wait 12 months to get a house built.

[jackiew]

on the bricklaying course I did the instructor said that some really unlucky apprentices never really got any practical experience outside the tafe part of their course ... they mostly only got to do labouring ... the guys they were apprenticed too being too busy to spend any time with them.

[SteveI]

Jackie

Sounds familiar - I know a plumber who did his entire apprenticeship doing roofs - so he was very experienced in that area, but knew bugger-all about doing sewerage... yet had his ticket!

...and Barry is right - why do we always go through boom and bust with the trades - just maybe the new technical colleges might help.

[bitingmidge]

on the bricklaying course I did the instructor said that some really unlucky apprentices never really got any practical experience outside the tafe part of their course ... they mostly only got to do labouring ... the guys they were apprenticed too being too busy to spend any time with them.

My nephew was apprenticed to his father, and could lay bricks like there was no tomorrow by the time he was 15 and legally able to start work. When the tafe course 6 week blocks used to come round he loved it. He'd get the steps/ BBQ/ fireplace done in the first couple of hours of the first morning, and charge the other blokes who hadn't seen a brick before $20.00 an hour to do theirs as well..... good for him, but not so flash for the state of the nations future bricklayers!


P

[capedcrusader]

[QUOTE=Barry_White]One of the biggest problems with a lot of these companys that they use sub contractors as all the good carpenters are usually working for themselves so they put an ad in the paper calling for subcontractors and they get people who aren't tradesmen but have a few tools and they show them how to install their product over about a week and then send them out on their own but they have never had the benefits or the diciplines that a tradesman gets through an apprenticeship.
QUOTE]

I think the main problem is probably with the fat @rsed salesman who probably only pays the subcontractor half of what the the work is actually worth which would tend to encourage cost effective dodgyness and also the way he comes around to try to "sell" you the idea that you wouldnt know what you are talking about (because you are a woman no doubt). It seems to be the predominant business "model" that every one running a business seems to aspire too these days.