Grain filling with oil finish

[Ben from Vic.]

I've been attempting to fill the grain on a large surface of TO by adding some Talc to a thin (50% turps) coat of 2/3 oil 1/3 poly. After four coats the grain isn't looking very filled, but then I realized that I've been giving the oil a good rub off with the grain, which is probably just wiping the talc right out of the pores.

Can you rub the excess oil off across the grain?

Should I rub softly? This will make it difficult to remove the excess.

Any other tips?

Do I need to sand the finish back and start again?


Ben.

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Ben,

do you have any scraps left over that you can play/test/trial with?

cheers
Wendy

[Lumber Bunker]

yes tips are in Neils book, the bible.
he describes wipe off side ways, so as not to waipe it out. i think from memory he also mentions using hesien to wipe it off too?

[ubeaut]

To fill with talc you need to use a drying binder. Which will hold the filler in the grain. Oil or turps alone won't do it.

Use a weak shellac mix with the talc. This will lay the talc down into the grain and harden then it can be sanded back when dry. Use ordinary shellac for a pale yellow fill and dewaxed white shellac for a clear fill. The talc needs to be pure talc and not the baby or body talc stuff you get off the shelf as this nearly always has other additives that may react down the track with finishes.

There are other ways of making grain filler but more complicated and in the main it's easier to buy a drain filler. This is wiped off across the grain, as wiping with the grain will pull the filler out of the pores.

To make and use the shellac filler: mix 1 part shellac with between 6 to 8 parts metho, add around 1 teaspoon of talc shake and brush on to the timber. Leave it to dry then sand with fine abrasive (800 grit or higher). You may need 2, 3 or even more coats depending on how open the grain is.

If you sand back to the timber the grain should be filled and the surface flat and silky smooth ready for finishing.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil

[Ben from Vic.]

Would very thin poly work as a binder? If the answer is yes how much would you recommend thinning it? Would I be best to brush this mix on or wipe?

If you sand back to the timber the grain should be filled and the surface flat and silky smooth ready for finishing.

Another question aswered before it was asked, thanks for clearing this up, oh mighty oracle.

All I have in my shed is Tung oil, Poly, timbermate filler, turps and some Hard Shellac made by this bloke who says its pretty good, but I havn't used it yet. I'm seeing if I can do a MacGyver and find a solution with what I have, if thats actualy possible.

I've already found out through searching for a solution to this one that Hard Shellac and Talc don't go together, which is lucky as that combination was going to be used on my next project.

I do have a copy of the Polishers Hand book, but it doesn't quite go into specifics on how to use everything with everything else, like we wood workers tend to do. But it certainly does have enough useful info to get you well underway and pointed in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.

Ben.

[Harry72]

Timbermate can be used as a grain filler, just thin it out with water to its the consistency of dairy cream, I tint for colouring using Ubeauts water dye.
Rub it on with a rag(across the grain as mentioned above), let dry and sand/seal.

[vijay kunchum]

In India, that's where I am from, the usual wood filler is made by the workers. This acts as a filler, colouring agent etc. The oxides are mixed to the desired colour first. A little bit of polish, is added to bind it together. These people use a soft cloth balled up and then go about dabbing the wet pad with the powder dye. This is applied on. After a few coats, the wood is completely filled. This is sanded and then the polish is applied as usual. This process of filling is followed even for application of P.U. or melamine. Surprisingly there was no water based filled available in India. Solvent based fillers are available. We have two distinctive segments. The industrial segment. These products are not available in the consumer market. The other is the retail consumer market, where popular brand products are available. But most of the time, the workers use their own systems and the quality may not be upto the mark.

[Ben from Vic.]

Ok, so I had a bit more of a look in the Handbook and found that my question is mostly answered in there, under Woodgrain Filler just after Oil Finishes.

The book calls for 3 parts turps, 2 parts raw linseed (I'll use raw tung), 1 part Gold Size, talc and tint or stain. So now my question is, is Gold Size hard to find? If it is would poly be an OK substitute? If poly would be an OK sustitute then the problem would be in my application as this is the exact recipe I used.

The surface I'm working on varies a fair bit in colour, it's mostly timbers that would be sold under the name of Tas Oak or KD Hard Wood and ranges from quite light to something similar to Blackwood. How would you tint to match that?

Thanks for you help and patience.

Ben.

[durwood]

Are you sure the timber is tassie oak? I have painted tons of it, never occured to me to wood fill it the grain is so small.

If it was a real soft wood like muranti then wood filler would be a help but 2 coats of polyurethane would easily fill the grain enough to sand it flat. then one more coat to get a mirror finish. Put the first coat on with a brush then spray after that. If you are brushing all coats you will get even better filling.

Any wood filler would be a thick paste 50% turps would make it like water. Buy some proper wood filler it will be cheaper and easier to get than Gold size. I have access to a store with all these products and its far safer,easier, quicker to just use the ready made product. You know exactly what it will do.

Gold size is a drier it helps set the mixture, you can buy it but unless you are going to do heaps of this work you will be buying an expensive tin which will need very little taken out of it and will sit unused on a shelf till it goes off. You have Timbermate use it its a great water based product so can go under any finish. The mixture you want to use can create problems with drying and adhesion if you use the wrong top coat.

[Ben from Vic.]

Well I went with the watered down Timbermate and I'm quite happy with the results, so thanks for all the advice . Even though the surface ranged from light to medium the Hardwood coloured filler was fine, only standing out in the borer holes that are quite dark around the edges.

The application was messy! I made the filler about the consistency of cream (thanks Harry72) but it doesn't spread very far once you wipe it accross the timber. Seems to dry out very fast. Any other tips?

Lasty, can anyone tell me how to get the filler to gloss like the rest of the finish when using an oil finish?

Picture of bench top shine with one coat of oil finish.

[Harry72]

Timbermate sets up pretty quick on warmer days, maybe try adding some moisture to the wood.

Add some extra poly into the oil mix?, might help seal the filler.

[rightendup]

I think that Japan drier mixed into your oil would be good. Better is time and the patience to wait for the oil to dry hard before rubbing or before the next coat.