I Wonder If

[Christopha]

Buy a concrete tank, bury it as deep as you can, make sure nothing can fall on top, jump in as the fire approaches. Doesn't matter if it has SOME water in it as you will only be in there till the fire passes..... Oh, and make sure there is a ladder inside so you can easily get out!

[Groggy]

Ok, now tell us how to make it PORTABLE

[tea lady]

So maybe I should make my pile of fire bricks into a cubby house shape!! But not kiln shaped as you wouldn't want to start an updraft. Not portable know, but......

[Chris Parks]

Not to be critical of all the suggestions but hands up those who have been in a fair dinkum raging bushfire? From all reports these fires were moving at over a kilometer a minute and that gives precious little time to do anything. Yes, something needs to be done especially in that area but what that is remains to be seen. If pushed for a suggestion I would say an igloo type structure with another igloo inside that, all built of double brick. Old brick kilns were built in this manner and they kept the heat in, so one built this way would keep the heat out. It has to be kept simple as all reason and the ability to think goes out the window when people are subjected to the violence of big fires, ask any volo firey and he will tell you the same thing.

[echnidna]

Ive been at the fire front of a "small" bush fire ,
that's scary enough to not want to get in the way of a big fire.

I forsee in the relatively near future all houses in the bush, maybe even all those outside suburban areas, are going to be compelled to have some type of emergency refuge.

It may even come that all cars registered in rural areas will have to carry a portable fire tent.

[echnidna]

If pushed for a suggestion I would say an igloo type structure with another igloo inside that, all built of double brick. Old brick kilns were built in this manner and they kept the heat in, so one built this way would keep the heat out.

I could dig out some pics of brick/concrete walls that disintegrated during the Ash Wednesday fires 20 years ago.

So I'm not altogether convinced about that idea though it would be better than nothing.

I think that permanent shelters need to be dug in as Stoppers suggested.

[Ellemcbeast]

Have you seen this?

http://www.agriboard.com/Agriboard%2...20Brochure.pdf

at www.Agriboard.com

Claims strong insulating capabilities.

[Lignin]

Was talking to a friend from Healsville Sanctuary last night when she dropped the mention that the Victorian building codes for fire prone areas specify that domestic buildings must now incorporate a fireproof, bunker type room.
As we were discussing the welfare of the collection (All moved to other zoos and sanctuaries) I didn't follow it up.
Does anyone know if this is so, and, if so, what is the design??

[echnidna]

That really looks the bees knees.

I'd like to see what the CSIRO thinks of it.

Now if it floats it would even be a flood refuge as well as a fire & cyclone refuge

[Chris Parks]

Underground shelters lead to other problems. keeping them clear of water can be one issue, keeping the entrance clear can be another along with the engineering needed just to build it. I doubt that the authorities would go as far as making them compulsory for a lot of reasons. You can see the quandry that the stay & fight advice has brought upon them, shelters could fall into the same category of criticism in the future. I could say that all houses should be underground, it would serve the same purpose, the only problem with that is it is not viable to do that and the costs escalate. While people live in the bush & I am one of those, then they accept the responsibility of that decision and all that goes with it. Harsh but true. BTW there is no way an underground shelter would work on our land, it would be right in the path of the fire, not in the lee of the house and would cost a fortune to put in with the risk of it becoming impossible to exit due to fallen debris. If the original owners had put an underground house on the block it would have been perfect and this is what I would do if I ever win the lottery.

[abrogard]

I find this whole topic very interesting. Seems to me we are all seriously under educated in this. In a country like ours this ability - surviving bushfires - should be taught from the earliest age.

First we'd need some skill in assessing danger, I would think. And that would include an assessment of the heat likely to be experienced, the smoke, the length of time.

Surely there's some places with virtually NIL danger?

And others with what we might call 100% danger or NIL safety factor?

And all grades between.

So I think a basic Australian skill should be to be able to assess the fire danger of any particular area, building, home, whatever.

And along with that would come an assessment of the appropriate safe shelter for those circumstances.

Seems to me without this assessment procedure all safety shelter provisions, debates, laws, regulations, are putting the cart before the horse.

It could well be, in many instances, that the simplest protection is to change the house, the area, from high danger to low danger.

After all this discussion and after the terrible, terrible tragedies I must confess that - even though I spent most of my life in the country one way or another - I am still unable to assess relative fire danger between different home, different locations and still wouldn'tt know how to fireproof a home to suit all those different locations.

I wouldn't be much help to you if a fire was coming and you asked me to help.

But I should know. We all should.

What happens? Burning sparks lodge in the eaves? Or the fierce heat just makes wooden walls start to burn? Or is it curtains that burn?

It'd be different things in different places.

How much danger to a house standing in the centre of 5acres of brown grass?

I saw countrymen on television apparently with homes standing in the centre of bare paddocks and the treeline a long way away - hundred yards at least - and they were fearful of surviving and talking of moving out and leaving it to the fire.

It's all a mystery to me and I don't think it should be.

regards,

ab

[wattlewemake]

Something like this maybe? If it is as good as it says, well it should be made mandatory.

http://www.barricade.com.au/