Red Cedar Cabinet - Advice for finishing

[Harry fro Coffs]

Dear Everybody

My wife found this cabinet in the Council throwout. I fairly sure is red cedar. It was in very poor condition when I found it with lino glued to the surface. I removed the heavy glue/adhesive with a paint stripper and I have 'cleaned up' the other surfaces with Grade 1 steel wool.

The cabinet has a very rustic look to it ie nails on the top, blotchy dark stains and evidence of dry rot (?).

My questions are :

1. Could anyone reccomend a sandpaper treatment for this piece. ie what grit to start at and where to finish

2. Is there a technique/treatment for removal of dark blotchy stains (sandpaper may do this, but I was apprehensive of going in to hard to early)

3. How to finish this piece. Is there any old threads you could guide me to. (I have done an adult education course in French Polishing some time back but my experience using shellac is very limited really)

4. The wire screen - does anyone have any suggestions where to get matching screen for the sides ?

Thanks very much

Harry from Coffs

[JB]

My wife found this cabinet in the Council throwout. I fairly sure is red cedar. It was in very poor condition when I found it with lino glued to the surface. I removed the heavy glue/adhesive with a paint stripper and I have 'cleaned up' the other surfaces with Grade 1 steel wool.

Good score!

The cabinet has a very rustic look to it ie nails on the top, blotchy dark stains and evidence of dry rot (?).

My questions are :

1. Could anyone reccomend a sandpaper treatment for this piece. ie what grit to start at and where to finish

Start with no coarser than 80 and finish with 240 or 320 if you're really keen

2. Is there a technique/treatment for removal of dark blotchy stains (sandpaper may do this, but I was apprehensive of going in to hard to early)

You could try some bleaches. Oxalic is the mildest and the most commonly used. Don't worry too much about the stains - they add character!

3. How to finish this piece. Is there any old threads you could guide me to. (I have done an adult education course in French Polishing some time back but my experience using shellac is very limited really)

Shellac and wax is the authentic way to go. Forget the French Polishing course - the last thing you want on a simple piece like this is a 'high' finish. Use the shellac thin (like skim milk), and brush on quickly three or four coats, sanding between coats with very fine sandpaper (ie worn 320). Finish with beeswax.

4. The wire screen - does anyone have any suggestions where to get matching screen for the sides ?

Antique supplies. Goodsandchattles in Brisbane, Graeme Bown in Melbourne (both have mail order services). I can email you the 3.3MB Brown catalogue if you like.

[Claw Hama]

What JB said, only I never use anything under 120grit on Cedar, it is so soft once you get those deep scratches from 80grit in there you will have a lot of rubbing ahead of you to get them out.
Have fun, great old kitchen cupboard.

[barnsey]

As above but might try a cabinet scraper on the top if you want to try and get a less damaged finish.

FIW

Jamie

[jerryc]

Harry,

Shellac will give a great finish. I suggest you use orange shellac flakes and mix your own. This should give a warm deep appearance to the wood. I personally, would not advise brushing. The problem with brushing on shellac is that even when properly thinned, it dries very quickly and unlike varnish or even danish oil, it is prone to leave brush marks unless you use a very high quality brush. It is also very easy for a beginner to put coats on that are too thick. A rubber is very easily made and there are enough threads on the forum to guide you in what to do. It is a technique that is easier to learn than brushing.

As to the stains on the top, , I would suggest you try oxalic acid which is a useful wood bleach. However, as I constantly stress, try any technique that you have no experience of on wood in an unseen location, such as the underside. Make this a rule. It certainly applies to oxalic acid and even to something as safe as shellac.

I'm not a great fan of waxing, but that is a personal thing. However one warning you should bear in mind is the wax you use should NOT contain any silicon. Make sure both you and your wife bear this in mind. Silicon is the enemy of any refinishing you may wanto do in the future.

[JB]

prone to leave brush marks unless you use a very high quality brush..

True. The advantage of applying most of the coasts with a brush is that I find it quicker. I use a 50mm wide 'imitation sable' brush I bought from an art supplies shop about 15 years ago. Even though it's only imitation sable it still cost about $30. And I must admit I do often finish off with a rubber if I'm concerned about streaks/brush marks. A final light sand and waxing can also help get rid of these. Waxing also leaves a softer, less sparkly finish, and it improves moisture/marking resistance.

[jerryc]

Rusty,
Point you make about sanding could perhaps be amplified.

Harry
I do sand the first few coats because shellac acts as a sealer and locks the sanding fibres. I don't bother much to clean away the resulting sanding dust. One light wipe is more than enough. That sanding dust is a mixture of wood fibre, shellac and just trace of sand paper. Using the rubber I use that as a form of grain filler. Believe me it works because the next application of shellac re activates the shellac in the dust. Also use the rubber in a circular motion, especially in the early stages to move the shellac into the wood pores. As I have said there are many threads on working with shellac because it is so very easy to produce a good finish.
I've had no trouble with moisture resistance and have successfully used it on the interior of three yachts.

Jerry

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

FWIW, Cedar is one of the few woods that I've found it worth steaming out any dents. Just a tea-towel or similar dipped in warm water and wrung out, laid flat on the surface and then lightly ironed. (The idea is to lightly steam the wood, not saturate it!) This will reduce the depth of the worst dents, meaning less material needs removing.

IF you try this, do it first thing before anything else and give it a day or two to dry. Personally I'd use a card scraper to clean up the top. With luck, depending on how deep any remaining scratches are, you could then start sanding at 240 grit or finer.

The stains probably go fairly deep, so I wouldn't count on sanding them out.

[Harry fro Coffs]

Dear ChiDamn, JB, JerryC & Barnsey

Wow, I really appreciate you guys giving me the time to make such helpful responses. Hopefully I will do you proud.

Can you guys fill me in on what is a 'card scrapper' and where would I track a good one down.

Thanks

Harry from Coffs

[jerryc]

Harry,

The tool referred to is a card scraper. It is a piece of spring steel about the size of a playing card. For someone new to woodwork it can be very frustrating to sharpen and use. While Skew is right to say a scraper is the way to go, I suggest that the use of a sanding block and a light touch will give you the results you are looking for.
There are threads on the forum discussing the scraper, it's sharpening and use and if you are really interested in following that route, they are worth reading.

Jerry