Tight fisted

[Richard0470]

As a new member, i need some help with a picking the best finish, and with a problem just encountered.
1st question is what is best finish to use to coat cedar fishing floats with? It needs to be long lasting and saltwater resistant, if there is such a thing. I'm currently using an enamel clear laquer with sufficient time to cure fully. Am using in OTC (over the counter) spray can. I have heard of using Shellac, but apparently i have been told that it can slightly colour the timber and therefore take the brightness out of the fluoro tips. the other point was marine varnish but from experience it does weather and need recoating every so often.
2nd question (if allowed per blog, but seeing as related thought it'd be ok), I have sprayed 2 coats of enamel clear, then sprayed another coat with an old can of what i thought was enamel (which has been confirmed as high gloss enamel by the manufacturer). My dilema comes that it turned out flat after drying !!?? I have then since bought a new can and after spraying 1 coat it wrinkled immediately, what could have caused this wrinkling effect? Could the old spray can be off, could it have been infact acrylic? The effect this created would be ideal if i was making a piece that needed ageing or weathering but alas it doesn't.

All ideas and suggestions are welcome.

And before anyone tells me that i should just cough up on a new can and not be so tight, i realise my mistake and won't be so tight next time

Thankyou.

[Tex B]

Richard,

Like you, I have had bad experience putting one finish on another. Even it is the same "product" from different manufacturers, the result is always disappointing.

A long lasting, saltwater resistant, gloss coat is a big ask. My guess is the floats will also take some abuse as they're used. Some of the boating shops sell some finish which will work (Sikkens, Goldspar, maybe Marine Wax?), but will probably need to be reapplied depending on how gentle you are with the floats.

Tex

[Master Splinter]

With your spray problem - the flat finish was probably due to poor atomisation or not enough shaking beforehand - either way, not enough enamel actually getting delivered to the piece.

When I'm using a spray can that has been lurking around for some time, I make sure that it gets shaken well (the full two minutes worth, not just a quick rattle) and if the can is cold, or its a cold day, I sit it in a sink of hot water to help thin it out/pressurise the can.

The wrinkling is caused by the solvent in the new coat reacting with the old coat.

Shellac would not be a good idea...it's not exactly a water resistant finish (it's probably the most water sensitive finish you can find!).

My suggestion would be to either change material to something naturally more marine durable - such as plastic - or if you are going to stick with cedar, coat it in a few layers of marine grade epoxy (Botecote or West System) and then apply fluro paint on top of the epoxy and skip the varnish (read the compatibility list on the West System site).

Note that these epoxies have little in common with Araldite.

You can get marine grade fluro paints, which would be ideal (see here for paint and epoxy prices/ordering).

[durwood]

Using pressure pack cans of paint will not give you results of the type you are looking for. These materials are cheap inferior products. Any decent product will be only sold in a container which requires it to be applied with a brush roller or spray.

You are also confused as to what you are actually using enamel is enamel and lacquer is lacquer. They are entilewly different materials basically the opposite to each other. If its an enamel it dried by reaction with the atmosphere, lacquers dry by evaporation of the solvent.

Usually cans of paint are enamel they can be flat, satin or glossy finishes, Enamel usually is made to dry to produce the finish you require off the gun ( or can). You apply a glossy coat and within a few minutes you will see the end result of the application. It usually dries slowly the slower it dries the better the gloss.

Lacquer on the other hand dries fast, so fast it can dry before it reaches the surface if you hold the spray nozzle too far from the job. It requires buffing, compounding and polishing to gain full gloss.

If you put enamel on something and then spray lacquer over it the solvent will usually attack the enamel and make it wrinkle. Do it the other way and you have no problem enamel can be put over any paint finish without any reaction as the solvent is not strong enough to do so.

The best material for the results you require are two part urethanes, the better of them are those used in the automotive industry or the marine polyurethanes, epoxy finishes are not usually made for top coat applications. 2 pack finishes need to be mixed together and can be brushes or sprayed (or dipped which would be Ok for a fishing float) but an expensive way to go as you only need a spoon full to do your job.

Ask around those you know who may have such a product, and see if they can give you a small amount or can coat the float for you when they have some mixed. Estapol 2 pack ( as used on floor would be good but better still the automotive ones.) If you have had any dealing with a panel beater call in with a small bottle and ask if the painter could pour in the dregs of clear from a job at the end of the day. The clear once mixed lasts 6 hours so you could pick it up after work take it home and apply two coats with a brush before it went off. Just make sure you have all the old pressure can coats stripped off and the timber rubbed ready to apply the clear.

[Richard0470]

Thanks all for the tips, i think it might have been a combination of cold can, cold day, wet weather (i should know not to spray on a damp day) maybe even not mixed properly but i do try and shake can fully. I might try the dropping in warm water trick next time.. I have since sanded wrinkles off and re-coated luckily to high gloss finish. there should be enough coats to last several harsh winters in the water. These have been a new thing to turn and am having fun, should they fall apart and or require recoating later on, i'll make more then re-coat. I will also look at estapol 2pak (i have some left from my floors) or marine varnish. after all the fish won't know whats holding up their chow. I had also thought about using a laminating resin but even though hard wearing it may actually be too heavy to use. I suppose trial and error and number them all to find out what lasts the longest.

Thankyou.