Pipes types

[zx9]

Hi all, after googling for variers information over the last couple of weeks i stumbled onto this knowledge goldmine of a site can see that i'll be spending quite a bit of time over the next 6 months or so trawling tho varies posts. Thank you who have posted and many more in advance as I am beginning my first renovation and am looking at doing as much of it as i can myself. so in the planning phase i will start by questioning you all on plumbing of which i need to do for the complete house! (1 bathroom terrace, keeping all plumbing in 1 wall, bath/kitchen wall)

-what type/size pipe do i use for the following? water, hot water, gas, sink shower drains & sewer?

-where's the best/cheapest place to purchase such pipes and fittings? (Melb)

-Realising I need a license plumber for gas, can I purchase and lay the gas pipes under the house in a straight line and have a plumber do the connections at each end or does the law require the plumber do the complete job?

-Is it enough to turn off the gas meter to remove existing gas pipes, (after i burn remaining gas out) or do i need to have a plumber come plug up the meter too?

-Although a good mechanic i have never done plumbing before, am i taking on too much or is it pretty straight forward?

-What tools specific to plumbing should i buy before i begin?

-Currently the gas line goes externally up the front of the house, though the roof then again externally out and down then into the kitchen. For appearance I wanted to run it under the house next to the water pipe, is there any safety reason why they ran it up though the roof to begin with or was that just what they did 50 years ago?

Thank you for any and all answers, hopefully i can give something back to this site down the track.

[wonderplumb]

Where to start?!?!?
Firstly, without trying to sound smart or "keeping a closed shop" as others like to put it:
You shouldnt touch the gas at all, even if you drag it under the house the plumber will more than likely run it a different way,
With water and drainage there is a few different sizes which come under lots of different rules that must be adhered to,
It does sound to be a pretty involved job and I would seriously consider getting a plumber to do it,
A lot of the older houses did have their gas going up to the eaves and through the ceiling space, it was mostly to do with "towns gas" which was a "wet" gas and pipework had to be drained off at a low point, usually at the fron t of a house before it goes up to the ceiling.
To do the job cleanly and efficiently the required tools (from a plumbers point of view) will cost a bit.
After all, I wouldnt machine a flywheel on a lathe or deck a block on a sheet of glass with valve grinding paste (and ive seen this done!) and I wouldnt buy the equipment to do it either, Id get the bloke who knows to do it.
Mate you will find a plumber who will do it cheaper for cash, or the bloke you work with might have a cousin who has a mate who knows a bloke whos brother is a third year and looking for cash.
Good luck with it mate!

[tricky4000]

Hi ZX9,
Welcome to the forum. I'd like to give you my opinion but note, I am not a plumber but I will give you my opinion gathered from plenty of information from this site and also a good friend of mine who is a plumber.

With plumbing, it best to use a plumber if you're fitting out a house. I did the same thing you're doing...renovate an old house, it takes a long time if you don't know what you're doing.

Use all plastic piping, its cheaper and better. Even gas is done in plastic now. Much cheaper than copper. Insist on 1" water all the way to the back of the house to maintain pressure (telling you from experience here). I have a single fronted Victorian in Melbourne...those house are very deep. You could even run 2 x 1" pipes from the main. One for the house and one for the back yard. But make sure it is 1" though...especially if you only have one. Use only the 1/2" pipes to connect to tapeware...but your plumber can work this out better.
Hot water is usually 3/4" in, 3/4" out. Just tell the plumber you don't want to have a low pressure problem. He'll know what to do.
Sink wastes are usually 50mm. To sewer, 100mm. Toilet, 100mm. My plumber ran 100mm all the way from the kitchen sink. I have installed a food disposal system so this is why. Not a bad idea really...it will never block! Shower waste depends...are you using a water saver shower head? If you are, use 50mm...if you're not using a water saver shower head, use 80mm waste. If you have a double shower, use 100mm waste. That's what my plumber told me he does.
That's all I feel I can answer here except for one thing...you said you'll be around for the next 6 months reading these posts while you renovate. My friend, our renovation was supposed to take 6 months...doing work every weekend on it. Three and half years later we moved into it in Oct 07. If you work during the week and renovate on the weekends...you can't finish it quickly. Just telling you from experience here. Everything takes 10 times longer than you think.
Good luck. You will be very proud in the end.
Dan.

[wonderplumb]

Good post Tricky4000!
Plastic pipe is cheaper to buy, the fittings cost a bomb but you get that back in ease of installation.
The plastic gas pipe, same as water.
How tricky described the waste sizes (50mm KS and LT, 40mm BSN, 40mm BTH, ) is pretty spot on and good practice to run 100mm to the fixture and reduce it just under the floor, except in a bathroom you will have at least one of the fixtures charging the floor waste.
The drainage lay-out will depend on room under your floor etc. but as said earlier your plumber can work that out.
I wasnt trying to dishearten you with my previous post, just telling you how it is.
Best of luck mate!

[zx9]

thanx guys, some good advice so far. i know it would be far easier, quicker and maybe only mildly more expensive to just get a plumber to do it all, but what u guys dont understand is i actually want to do it. i really enjoy learning new things and getting my hands dirty. but i agree that i should leave all the gas work to a plumber and probably the sewer too.

i would really like to do the rest , hot & cold water myself. i don't think it's as big as job as i'm making it sound, i'm only renovating 1/2 the house. 30sq, the rest is being knocked down and a double story rebuilt at the back. there's no water required at the rear of the property. and the bath/room kitchen wall is shared. There's already a sewer running under the house so all i need to do is run cold water 8 meter under the house in a straight line up into the wall and banch off on both sides for kitchen/bath (ie kitchen sink/dishwasher on one side,bath/shower/vanities on the other. i'm also have the place restumped & new flooring, so i won't have to climb under the house or anything to lay these pipes. I also plan to install an instant hot water system just outside the kitchen wall. As for usage , it's a 1 bathroom/ small kitchen, no external taps or anything.

so 1" plastic water pipe from the mains to the kitchen/bathroom wall. I read about these plastic pipes previously and when i asked a plumber he said no good for under the house as rats can chew threw them!?? is this true.

so can anyone recommend a good place for buying discounted plumbing supplies in melb?

thanx

[zx9]

Hi ZX9,
That's all I feel I can answer here except for one thing...you said you'll be around for the next 6 months reading these posts while you renovate. My friend, our renovation was supposed to take 6 months...doing work every weekend on it. Three and half years later we moved into it in Oct 07. If you work during the week and renovate on the weekends...you can't finish it quickly. Just telling you from experience here. Everything takes 10 times longer than you think.
Good luck. You will be very proud in the end.
Dan.

yep i heard many stories of the same thing. but i am only renovating a very small part 30 or so meters squared, (2 bedrooms, hall & a bathroom). the rest is for the builders. luckierly the property is only 5mins away so i will prob put in a few evenings afterwork as well. it might take longer than 6 months, hopefully not 3, 1/2 years ~ fingers crossed!

thanx for ur advice

[tricky4000]

I think wonderplumb can confirm this but I think you're right, it should only be copper under the house.

[wonderplumb]

Mate as long as its clipped off securely you can run it anywhere, in walls-rendered or stud, buried, under the house no worries. I have heard the stories of the rat eating through the pipe, the story I heard was the pipe was in a stud wall and had been chewed out by rats, and apparently they left little black plastic poohs, (it is true, I done an experiment a few years ago in my old garage, I left different coloured candles lying around, there was chew marks but more amusing was red and yellow and blue and pink rat nuggets!) but I dont think there has ever been any firm evidence to confirm this.
A lot of older plumbers will spin a story as they dont like to use plastic, a lot of people think it takes the "craft" out of plumbing, and I agree.
I do prefer to use copper, but you need to give people the option these days to win jobs.
Plastic is fine, most brands garauntee the pipe for the life of the brass fittings it comes with, though the fittings cost a bit and so do the necessary tools needed for that particular brand of pipe, each brand has its own system.
Go for it mate and good luck, just be aware of the resrictions in using poly pipe and being a punter off the street expect to pay full price for your materials!

[bricks]

As wonder plumb said, get some rough quotes.
When I do small amounts of work, it usually costs the customer less money because of my discount ability at plumbing stores.

The plastic pipe isn't sold by the meter- it sold by roll only, you'll be paying for heaps of gear your not going to use.
The plastic tool crimpers- you'll need to hire them.

Just an example
Bosch instant hws- list price for you, minus extra fittings $890
My price at the moment- $540

your cost to install, assuming you don't buy anything else and you don't get a warrany because it wasn't installed by a plumber $0

If I install it, $125 delivered to you house and installed.


Just be careful that your not doing yourself a dis service, regardless of the legal rammifications of diy plumbing.

[wonderplumb]

G'Day bricks, long time no hear bloke.
Auspex and Rehau I know you can buy it in 5m lengths aswell as coils, as for the others im not sure. I know Dux comes in big coils.
The duopex gas pipe comes in lengths also, both Auspex and Duopex being exclusive to Reece.

[bricks]

holy straight lengths batman,

I did'nt know that, how much are they p/m vs coil?

[wonderplumb]

holy straight lengths batman,

I did'nt know that, how much are they p/m vs coil?

Believe it or not, (and this is from the Reece Users Account price listing) that a 50m coil of 20mm is $202.84 which works out at $4.06 p/m
where the 5m length is $19.04 and works out at $3.81 p/m ! A whole 25c per metre cheaper if you buy it by the length!

[Ivan in Oz]

I left different coloured candles lying around, there was chew marks but more amusing was red and yellow and blue and pink rat nuggets

C'Mon WP,

Far to much info

Welcome ZX9
With a Handle like that,
You and I would likely be at opposite ends of the Technology Spectrum.
I ride a 'Goose'.... The Old Tractor

[wonderplumb]

C'Mon WP,

Far to much info

Welcome ZX9
With a Handle like that,
You and I would likely be at opposite ends of the Technology Spectrum.
I ride a 'Goose'.... The Old Tractor

Its pretty funny Ivan, try it youll be surprised.
I was going to comment on ZX9's handle untill I thought about it and realized I was thinking of the Z1...........
but as far as jappa's go ive always been a 750/4 man.........

[zx9]

As wonder plumb said, get some rough quotes.
When I do small amounts of work, it usually costs the customer less money because of my discount ability at plumbing stores.

The plastic pipe isn't sold by the meter- it sold by roll only, you'll be paying for heaps of gear your not going to use.
The plastic tool crimpers- you'll need to hire them.

Just an example
Bosch instant hws- list price for you, minus extra fittings $890
My price at the moment- $540

your cost to install, assuming you don't buy anything else and you don't get a warrany because it wasn't installed by a plumber $0

If I install it, $125 delivered to you house and installed.


Just be careful that your not doing yourself a dis service, regardless of the legal rammifications of diy plumbing.

good point, i didn't think about warranties, yep def dont wanna void my warranty, so will need a plumber to install the hotwater system. pity ur not in melbourne.