Canberra Deck, photos up - help need with nails

[dazzler]

Better appearance
No popped nails
boards don't lift up off the joists
Can remove boards for access to plumbing etc below deck or if you damage one
Flush or sunken finish versus the raised head or a dome nail

Cheers utemad

I get the no popped nails, however I havent come across this with twist nails, removal of boards for access is definately an advantage where required, but I dont get the better appearance or the flush etc.

A domed twist nail has a 3mm head and can easily be sunk flush whilst the screw heads are at least twice as wide and far more noticeable.

Each to his own taste I imagine

cheers

dazzler

[PRKLCD]

Hi everyone,

I have been doing lots of research since my first post.

I actually live arcoss the road from a new display village and I often walk up there to get ideas for decks - this is where I first noticed screws being used for decks. I have now worked out that all the decks where built using 14g screws for some reason - and hence my comment in my orginal post about me not liking them( they were just too big)- it wasn't till today that I actually saw the head of the 10g and I must say that I like them!

So anyway I think I am going to go screws.

A few questions tho.

I still need to countersink with a carbitool (spelling) do I need to the boards and the joists? or just the decking boards?

Margent Mart has "topfix" SS 10g 50mm type 17 screws for $195 per 1000. Has anyone used this brand? and is that a good proce - what would you recommened I pay?

I rang a building surply shop this afternoon and the guy was telling me that SS screws would lose clour (look like rust) beacuse of the merbu??? is this correct? he told me to use galv screws which are a LOT cheaper!

Will take more photos of the deck tomorrow - almost ready for the boards!

[dazzler]

I wonder if they are using those screws with the driver that is at waist height so the screwer doesnt have to bend down to fix them making the process much quicker than nailing them. Dont know what they are called but they are in a few of the yank building mags.

[Burnsy]

I wonder if they are using those screws with the driver that is at waist height so the screwer doesnt have to bend down to fix them making the process much quicker than nailing them. Dont know what they are called but they are in a few of the yank building mags.

They might seem like a good idea Dazzler but to pull boards in tight to keep even spacing, keep your screws lined up and at even spacing as well I think you are better off down on your knees. I think the waist high things would only be good for final screwing off if you had already pinned the whole deck using intermitently spaced screws on your hands and knees.

I find the most enjoyable decks to screw or nail down are those that you can stand in front of the next board and push it back in as you fasten it.

[Burnsy]

I still need to countersink with a carbitool (spelling) do I need to the boards and the joists? or just the decking boards?

I rang a building surply shop this afternoon and the guy was telling me that SS screws would lose clour (look like rust) beacuse of the merbu??? is this correct? he told me to use galv screws which are a LOT cheaper!

Only predrill through the board, the screws will drive into the TP joists without a problem, predrilling a TP joist will reduce the effectiveness of the screw.

If the merebu is going to discolour the stainless it will do it to galv too. Spend the bit extra and go stainless, you won't be sorry, but you will be when the galv start to rust where the driver has chipped off the galv.

[manoftalent]

yep I agree with Burnsy, and if you do a good job, most likely ppl are gonna say what beautiful timber, doesnt it look good yadda yadda yadda ....only an experianced woody is gonna say .....soooo ya went SS huh...........

[Chumley]

Margent Mart has "topfix" SS 10g 50mm type 17 screws for $195 per 1000. Has anyone used this brand? and is that a good proce - what would you recommened I pay?

I wouldn't use 50mm screws - the old rule of thumb is the screw should penetrate at least twice the width of whatever you're fixing, so with tp (22mm thick - at least mine was) you need screws around 65mm long.

This is one instance where you should forget magnet mart or bunnings - go to a supplier like http://elraco.com.au - they'll have the screws on your doorstep in a couple of days. It'll cost a little bit more than the 50mm screws, but it's not much, and if you're going to the trouble to build a deck you may as well do it right.

Oh, by the way, definitely go stainless steel. You can have a good looking result with better components (even though some will think of it as base level).

Cheers,
Adam

[Waldo]

:G'day PRKLCD,

You're asking the same question I asked a few weeks back, have a look at this link. https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...t=47415&page=2 and post #30 with suppliers over on page 3.

[sports fan]

as i think utemad said if its your own place definatly use s/s square drive screws for hardwood decking

i dont know why your worried about the look of screw heads when you have a massive a/c unit in the middle of ya roof?!

[PRKLCD]

I wouldn't use 50mm screws - the old rule of thumb is the screw should penetrate at least twice the width of whatever you're fixing, so with tp (22mm thick - at least mine was) you need screws around 65mm long.

This is one instance where you should forget magnet mart or bunnings - go to a supplier like http://elraco.com.au - they'll have the screws on your doorstep in a couple of days. It'll cost a little bit more than the 50mm screws, but it's not much, and if you're going to the trouble to build a deck you may as well do it right.

Oh, by the way, definitely go stainless steel. You can have a good looking result with better components (even though some will think of it as base level).

Cheers,
Adam

Cheers adam,

I will look at the 65mm screws now. I know you said to stay clear of MM. put I do have friend who can get me a good staff discount on them - should I still aviod that brand (topfix)?

Also, I have been reading that I shouldn't put all the screws in a straight line due to the risk of the joist spliting? what are peoples thoughts.

[Chumley]

Cheers adam,

I will look at the 65mm screws now. I know you said to stay clear of MM. put I do have friend who can get me a good staff discount on them - should I still aviod that brand?

No, nothing wrong with the brand (or even MM or Bngs) -- its just that they only stock them in bags of 50 or 100 which work out to be much more expensive than buying them by the 1000.

Cheers,
Adam

[pharmaboy2]

I wouldn't use 50mm screws - the old rule of thumb is the screw should penetrate at least twice the width of whatever you're fixing, so with tp (22mm thick - at least mine was) you need screws around 65mm long.


Adam

can I swear here?//??/ - bloody hell - a 65mm SCREW!!!! iahve never even heard of someone using a 75mm nail on this forum - not even sure if a decking nail exists that long, and the holdinjg power of a screw is at least double that of a gal nail - there was a post a copuple of years ago on nail holding power - ring versus screw shank etc and a study put out by one of the timber organisations - and screws were multiple times more effective than the longest compared nail of any type.

maybe a 50mm screw might pull out of green 140/25mm wide boards - but TP is kiln dried and 90mm - IMO 65mm simply gives you a a sore back, trigger finger, and more snapped screws.

[Burnsy]

Also, I have been reading that I shouldn't put all the screws in a straight line due to the risk of the joist spliting? what are peoples thoughts.

Won't happen with the TP joists you have so don't worry about it. Usually only required for nailing into old dry hardwood.

[Gaza]

can I swear here?//??/ - bloody hell - a 65mm SCREW!!!! iahve never even heard of someone using a 75mm nail on this forum - not even sure if a decking nail exists that long, and the holdinjg power of a screw is at least double that of a gal nail - there was a post a copuple of years ago on nail holding power - ring versus screw shank etc and a study put out by one of the timber organisations - and screws were multiple times more effective than the longest compared nail of any type.

maybe a 50mm screw might pull out of green 140/25mm wide boards - but TP is kiln dried and 90mm - IMO 65mm simply gives you a a sore back, trigger finger, and more snapped screws.

that study was conducted by timber qld.

http://www.timber.org.au/resources/R...20Nail%20Trial...

should be noted that the screws used these days have developed over the last few years from when the test was done.

[Chumley]

can I swear here?//??/ - bloody hell - a 65mm SCREW!!!! iahve never even heard of someone using a 75mm nail on this forum - not even sure if a decking nail exists that long, and the holdinjg power of a screw is at least double that of a gal nail - there was a post a copuple of years ago on nail holding power - ring versus screw shank etc and a study put out by one of the timber organisations - and screws were multiple times more effective than the longest compared nail of any type.

maybe a 50mm screw might pull out of green 140/25mm wide boards - but TP is kiln dried and 90mm - IMO 65mm simply gives you a a sore back, trigger finger, and more snapped screws.

Pharmaboy2, you can swear as much as you like - it's very Australian Not too sure where the 75mm nail comes in - we were talking about screws. And you are welcome to your opinion. For my current project, a gazebo, I have put in about 200 65mm SS type 17 screws (so far) to hold together the bearers/joists, frames and roofing - haven't got a sore back (well not from screwing), trigger finger is fine, and I've only snapped one screw - and that was because I was trying to drive it through another screw. I've got about 580 screws to put in the flooring - they will all be 65mm.

I did quite a bit of research before starting, and after assessing all the advice from this forum and from the chippies/builders at work, I wouldn't use anything shorter than 65mm on 22mm flooring. It's true that materials and techniques do improve - I still think the old rules-of-thumbs have merit.

Gaza, the link you posted doesn't work for me.

Cheers,
Adam